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ISI Brotherhood Podcast
A podcast for growth-minded Christian businessmen who desire momentum and accountability in their business, family, finances, faith, and personal wellness. Each week, Aaron Walker, also known as Big A, shares authentically from decades of business ownership, marriage, and raising a family. He takes on listener questions and deep-dive into FORGE episodes with tried and tested co-hosts. Subscribe and visit our website https://www.isibrotherhood.com/podcast
ISI Brotherhood Podcast
95. THE FORGE: Who Should You Turn to For Advice?
How can we effectively sift through well-meaning advice to find what truly aligns with God's will for us?
Through shared personal experiences, we highlight the necessity of being open and vulnerable to receive quality guidance. Your trainer at the gym might not need to be a believer to advise you on something, but should your trusted advisors be believers?
And what if you don't want advice at all and would rather just figure it out yourself?
Key Takeaways:
- Criteria for advisors vs. trusted advisors
- Should you take advice from nonbelievers?
- Do your core values really make sense for real life? Are you going to the right people to help keep you accountable?
This episode dives deep into the practicalities of seeking spiritual guidance, emphasizing reliance on God over mere human advice. But how do we know when our advisors are giving us biblical advice?
Join the Iron Sharpens Iron Community: https://go.viewfromthetop.com/community
Connect with Anthony Witt: witthouse.com or anthonywitt.com
Anthony Witt is a professional licensed counselor and a business owner with a deep understanding of how entrepreneurship impacts personal health and those around them. Having bought, sold, and started multiple businesses, he has gained valuable
experience at the intersection of personal health and business. His belief that "a healthy business owner creates a healthy business" underscores his approach to helping entrepreneurs thrive.
Connect with Bret Barnhart:
Barnhartexcavating.com
Bret’s Calendar Link
Bret’s Linkedin
Bret Barnhart, Jr. is the fourth generation in his family to start his own excavation company. He began Bret Barnhart Excavating (BBE) in 2002 with $1,500, a single backhoe and truck, and a trailer. Since then, BBE has grown to an entire fleet of heavy machinery and trucks, averages just under 20 employees, and grosses $4mil annually. Being specialized, along with having a personal mentor and joining a mastermind, has helped shape not only Bret's company but also himself as well. Bret and his wife Crystal have been married for 16 years and have two children, Cole and Adelyn.
If you want to hear more speakers like this every month and be with the guys on the call, join the Iron Sharpens Iron Community today: https://www.isibrotherhood.com/isi-community
Connect with Big A:
View From The Top Website: https://isibrotherhood.com
The ISI Newsletter: https://www.isibrotherhood.com/newsletter
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Welcome everybody back to View From the Top podcast, where we help growth-minded men who desire momentum in their business, their family and their finances get through the valleys and up the mountain to experience their very own view from the top. Hey, just yesterday, Anthony Jorved posted in the ISI app about why so many guys struggle asking for help. He made the statement no one can do great things without others in our life, and it got me thinking about how much better things might be for me if I ask for help more often versus going it alone, Because I know that doing it alone really feels terrible, right, so I also know how it feels when someone asks me for help and I'm right there with a shovel digging in, sometimes literally digging in, depending on what kind of help I'm giving. But what is it for you? How can you better equip yourself to ask for help? Well, I encourage you to join Anthony's conversation in the ISI community, a growing group of growth-minded Christian businessmen and leaders. Go check it out now, Viewfromthetopcom slash community, and see for yourself.
Speaker 1:Speaking of asking for help, this week's episode is a forge episode, where we have a panel of co-hosts and a guest that presents a problem he's facing and we help by deep diving into it with him For this episode. We have Anthony and Brett back with us, along with Big A, and Ben is going to be our guest. We are dropping the veil for this episode and Ben is showing up just as he is, transparent and authentic. So let's get rolling, guys. Welcome to the pod. Good to see you, Wally Brett. Good to see you. Good to see you back guys, welcome to the pod.
Speaker 2:Good to see you, wally.
Speaker 1:Good to see you Good to see you.
Speaker 3:Good to be back.
Speaker 2:Anthony, good to have you. Man, we're excited for you guys. Tell us what's been going on. Exciting, brett, you've got a pretty big month ahead of you, don't you?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes. Today is day two of taking a month off, disconnecting from everything, after almost 22 years in business. Wow.
Speaker 1:I'm excited You're not saying that with a lot of enthusiasm. It's day two.
Speaker 3:I think day one, day two, day three, day four will probably be pretty easy. I'm assuming it'll get pretty hard here, pretty quick.
Speaker 2:I talked to him this morning and said I know it's going good, but I'll talk to you a week from today. We'll see how things are then.
Speaker 3:It feels like an extended weekend and, to be honest, with you not going in and checking the email constantly and living out of my calendar, that's probably been the hardest thing for me.
Speaker 2:You know, we may do a whole episode on you at the conclusion of this to see how it goes. But for those that don't know, you introduce yourself, tell about your family, your business and where you're coming from today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, brad Barnhart, from Tulsa, oklahoma, a little bit south of Tulsa, beautiful wife of almost 20 years, 19 years this fall. Two kids, cole will be 12 this month and Addie will be she's nine, so she'll be turning 10 here in August. So, yeah, I'm in the construction business heavy civil. Like I said, I've been doing it for about 22 years, so grew up in a family business where everybody did civil construction construction business, heavy civil. Like I said, I've been doing it for about 22 years. So I grew up in a family business where everybody did civil construction, so started my own back in 2002. So it's been great Big challenge. I set this goal a year ago to take off for a month, to build up to it, to really test the business, test me, test the people in the business to see did I really build a business or did I just build a business for me to be self-employed, to I remember a year ago, Scott Beebe came in and challenged you to do this and you went straight home, told Crystal, put it on your calendar.
Speaker 2:And here we are 12 months later, day two so exactly.
Speaker 3:It was a mastermind call and scott shared how it went for him and I put it on the calendar and, yeah, I'll be honest with you guys. I tried to find every excuse I could, about two months leading up to this, that would allow me to not do this, because I didn't really want to do it.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, the truest statement you said during your introductions. You have a beautiful wife, crystal's a lot easier to look at than you, but we're going to tolerate you today. Anthony, what's been going on with you?
Speaker 4:Man, I feel like I'm the opposite of Brett right now, where I feel like I'm going from summer camp to summer camp, to kid going over here, to kid going over there. Well, you've got 13 kids or something, so you've got camp a long time ahead of you. It's been really good.
Speaker 2:That's good man About your practice.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so my wife and I are both therapists. We we do a lot of work with entrepreneurs, entrepreneurial families. I literally just got off a call with an entrepreneurial individual who's bringing his wife into his company. So just, we do therapy, we do it locally here in the Nashville area and of course, we do it globally with our clients kind of all over the country. So we love what we do and we like working with each other.
Speaker 2:Well, for yeah, that couch behind Anthony I'm very familiar with. I've sat on that couch for many hours and had sessions, and so these guys do a great job. Man, I'm equally excited being booers with us today, Ben. How's it going, buddy?
Speaker 5:Going well. Really glad to be here. It's a pleasure to be with you guys.
Speaker 2:Man, I couldn't be more excited. I've got a long-term relationship with Brett and with Anthony and with Wally, and you and I have a newer relationship. Only this year we met. You joined Iron Sharpens Iron back in April. I don't want to make an assumption. I think it's been a good thing for you. You said it's been a good thing, but we got a really, really cool topic we're going to talk about today and how we make decisions. But before we do, won't you tell us a little bit more about your family and the great state of Washington?
Speaker 5:For sure, we live in Centralia Washington, my wife and I. I married a lovely lady named Marta Three and a half years ago. We have two little ones now and one on the way, and last week we bought our minivan. Oh okay, you're officially in. It was not a suburban, it was not a four-door truck, it was a minivan.
Speaker 2:A minivan. I hear they're pretty nice, though now you know what?
Speaker 5:They're great, but I think it's my wife's van. But I told her it comes with a chauffeur, a built-in chauffeur, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, there you go, man. It's so good to have you today and we're really excited. You took the veil off, you said hey, I'm Ben Buer and I'm happy to share any thoughts that I've got here today, and so it's gonna make our job a little bit easier as we dive in, because we can be more specific on the questions that we ask. So thank you, ben, for being willing to be vulnerable and transparent on the Forge today. I wanna get into the topic just a little bit before we start.
Speaker 2:I've been confronted with this issue for a number of years, even dealt with it personally. Every guy on this call has dealt with this issue as well. It's like where do we go for advice? First and foremost, Like, who do we even talk to? And then, once we get into that mode, what is the criteria by which we choose trusted advisors? And so, being relatively new in ISI, you've gone through a number of challenges and figuring out that for yourself, and I know that you've got some criteria that you'd like to share. So why don't you tell us a little bit more about your process and how you unfold, how you take advice from people and what the criteria is for you, and then we're going to kind of break it down.
Speaker 5:For sure For me. I don't know if I've ever written it down, but it's a. Psalm 1 says that blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly. And there's a pretty strong directive in the word of God and I use that as my basis for what I do practically State the question one more time and I don't want to miss that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I was just saying that we all have to make decisions on who we're willing to listen to. We have mentors, we have mastermind members, trusted advisors. We have coaches. We have people in our community, we have politicians. They're all giving us information every single day. What is the criteria that we use, by which we amass the information to make an intelligent decision for ourselves? Like what fundamental criteria is the person have to have in order for you to take or take heed to their advice?
Speaker 5:Oh, man. So first of all, I look for a God-fearing person. Oh, I look for a God-fearing person. I think that number one if we are seeking counsel that it would like in Psalms 1, 1, that we would seek counsel not from the ungodly but from the godly, and a man that fears God is going to be more aligned with my core values and understand where I'm headed and be able to more accurately direct his counsel. Honestly, I'm looking for counsel from God, not from men, but from God. So I'm looking for him to speak through people.
Speaker 5:He can use the world, but it's more often that he uses those who are already submitted to him. He uses all things for his glory. He doesn't have a problem using a donkey to speak to a prophet. That prophet should have been listening to him directly, but he wasn't, and that's why God had to use a donkey. So maybe that's a good case in point. We should be listening to the Lord directly, seeking counsel from him directly, but when we are not, wow, he can use all things for his glory. Again, I have heard counsel from others that aren't submitted to him, but there's a lot of sifting and it's definitely more aligned with his word and easier to hear, easier to follow when we hear counsel from godly men that fear God, that are surrendered to him, that have an active relationship with him that have daily communication with him.
Speaker 5:It's such a well of living water, even the word says out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Speaker 2:Well, ben, let's break that down just a little bit further so you can help me. In theory, that sounds really good and I'm in alignment with what you're saying. Practically speaking, though, to your own analogy, god used a donkey to talk to one of the prophets, right? What if there's donkeys out there talking to us today? He's using something other than a righteous person. What if it's in the medical space and their medical expertise is heightened over a righteous person or someone that has a walk in their faith? How do you measure that out? How do you seek the best advice? Is everything through a lens of spirituality, or are there areas in your life that don't necessarily have to be?
Speaker 5:I believe that the Scripture says, as the Scripture says that in Him we live and move and have our being, have our being. So there's nothing outside of him that we have to do it. So all things need to be subject to his will. In my life as a believer and again I'm assuming the premise here is as a Christian, who do I go to for counsel? That should be the predication right. So, as a Christian, who do I go to for counsel? That should be the predication right. So, as a Christian, I would go to someone who is a Christian and makes the most sense, and that's why I would understand why the world wouldn't come to me for counsel. I wouldn't direct them the way. Maybe that they're wanting to go the way, maybe that they're wanting to go.
Speaker 2:When were you made aware of this fundamental shift in the way you process things? When did this become part of your criteria? That's a good question.
Speaker 5:I was 19 when I surrendered to the Lord and everything changed. But nothing changed. Not a lot changed externally, but everything changed on the inside. So it took a while, definitely, for it to take hold on the outside. But man I, I was so hungry for the counsel of God. I would seek out believers everywhere and I found them everywhere. And yeah, you just become hungry for spiritual food. And I have heard counsel from unbelievers and again, god can use anyone to speak to us if we're listening, but he almost uses us in spite of ourselves. Sometimes, and this may not, it may not be the message that they had intended to get across to me, but God spoke something unique through them. But I would say, when I was 19 and I met the Lord, he really changed my heart and what I looked for in the world.
Speaker 1:And he set me on a different course.
Speaker 5:That would probably be the time. Yeah, thank you Biggest difference, yeah.
Speaker 2:So back to my original question pragmatically, how do you go about your daily life with these decisions? You own a business, a successful company, you have employees, you're around other business people, you're at conferences, you're reading books, you're watching TV, you're listening to politicians. Pragmatically, what is the steps you go through in order to discern the information that you're going to take? Is there a step, is there a framework that you use to work through getting that information? Obviously, you don't go up to the doctor and go hey, I'm here to check my heart. Are you a believer? And what advice? Or do you? Maybe you do? I'm asking, that's what. I'm here to check my heart. Are you a?
Speaker 1:believer, and what advice or do you?
Speaker 2:Maybe you do, or I'm asking. That's what I'm saying. You don't do that, or do you do that?
Speaker 5:Yeah, I avoid the hospital. I avoid the hospital at all costs.
Speaker 1:You avoid the hospital and all their costs. Is that what I heard you say?
Speaker 5:Yeah, there you go. Yeah, there you go. So it is a good question and it's one I've struggled with, honestly, but fundamentally it's who do we look to for our provision? I think that's the fundamental. Counsel is a form of provision. It's also a form of protection and it's a form of preparation, and those three things are the job of a man Protection, preparation and provision. And that's what we do for our families. I don't want to be led by the Lord. I'm his servant, he's my master and I want my family to be led by God. I don't want my family to be led by another man. God gave them to me, not another man. And in my business, the same way, god gave me a business. I believe it was him that gave it to me, and everything I have and everything that I am is his. Why would I want to go to another source for direction when I have him already? His promises he has promised to lead me.
Speaker 1:Now does he use other men?
Speaker 5:Absolutely, but he's the one using them. You know it's him speaking to them.
Speaker 2:But you have to discern. That is my point. You have to make the discernment as to whether he's using this person or whether this is a direct revelation from God, or whether you should adhere to the advice that they're giving. Those are the fundamental questions I'm trying to get to. How?
Speaker 5:do you decide we're going to get to it then, through the Word of God I know that it's of Him or not Through the Holy Spirit, I know it's of Him or not. And In the multitude of counselors there's safety, the word of God, the Holy Spirit and my brothers, and I do bounce these things off of them. I don't want to live in a vacuum and be going left or right not knowing it. Sometimes it's as simple as Kevin saying hey, ben, that thing you said the other day on our call, I want to call you on that. What do you mean by that? You know it's just really helpful. I know that their heart is to do good for me because they have the Holy Spirit in them and the Holy Spirit can teach them things that they don't know and give them either revelation or a sensitivity to something that no one would normally see, that isn't visible to the natural mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, Ben. That was a really good overview of the situation that we're dealing with today. Guys, anybody jump in. Where do you see it Similar? Is there a difference of thoughts? Lean in to Ben on this.
Speaker 3:So what's the specific challenge of taking counsel from non-believers? Is that what we're rooting back to, because we've just talked about a lot right there? Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Should you take advice from non-believers, or what is the criteria that we use in order to take advice from anyone?
Speaker 3:Naturally, when I think about who is going to counsel me or who I'm going to seek counsel from, naturally I feel like I'm going to go to the yoked versus the unequally yoked. But I also will say there's guys that I've been in mastermind groups with that were not believers. One of them specific become a believer and I don't believe that what he told me before he was a believer to what he tells me today is any different.
Speaker 2:Of his profession. Is that what you're saying Of his profession Related to his profession?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, and financial, basically financial realm. So he has changed as a person. But to say, would I not take counsel from him? I mean, I was in a group with him before, so I do have to think about being equally yoked. I would not likely partner with anybody in a business dealing or anything like that. But here's the thing what if we have a brother in Christ and they go to church every Sunday and they put this mask on and we're taking counsel from them, just to find out five years from now that maybe they're not a believer? How do you know that? So take it to another level.
Speaker 3:You said something a while ago, ben, that I just think about. Is you serve God and you're only going to serve God? You have employees, correct? So do they serve you or are they serving God, right? So if you're going to say it, are you going to live it throughout your business? So are you going to do? You want the? If that's your core value, do you want the same thing for your people, right? That's your core value. Do you want the same thing for your people, right? So I would ask myself am, am, am I living? Am I living out what I say through my people as well within my organization. Uh, did they go strictly off of the leadership of God or did they go off the leadership?
Speaker 2:of Ben. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:That's a good question. Uh, because if they come to you and if that's what you, I have core values in my business and I get my core values thrown back in my face. And if that's the core value you're going to live by and they come back and throw that back in your face, are you okay with the results? Core values are great until they get thrown back in your face. So I don't know. I just thought of that a while ago when you said that and and are you living that same lifestyle through everybody in your organization as well?
Speaker 4:So, um, so I was thinking, kind of been one of the things, as you were saying, I was thinking to myself okay, yeah, but what about Mars Hill? What about Willow Creek? What about harvest? What about Willow Creek? What about Harvest? What about Robbie Zacharias? What about all these top-tier Christian-based large organizations that claim Christ that have crumbled or are in the process of crumbling because they were run by men? I mean, I was intimately involved with one of those.
Speaker 4:I think what you said and I'm trying to help, I think, clarify what you said you said two things that jumped, probably more than that. Oh, three things Trusted advisors. There's a difference between an advisor and a trusted advisor, I think, and we could go to the nuance of that. I think it's the depth to which we take advice. That's why I was saying I don't really care if my workout coach is a believer or not. If he's telling me how to do proper form, he's an advisor. He's not necessarily a trusted advisor, because it's not the depth of my soul. He's not dealing with soul matters, heart matters. The other two things you said was multitudes, and then you I can't remember what your three were. It was a spirit. I think it was a spirit, the word, and then advisors trusted counsel.
Speaker 4:Trusted counsel, I think it's the three prong approach that allows this to happen. Right, it's? It's not. It's not one because I was, you know, we, we get these, this topic ahead of time, not one, because I was, you know, we get these, this topic ahead of time. So I was, you know, five minutes ahead of time even. I was just thinking through it and I was thinking, ok, where where is this, where does this go? And my answer is well, it goes to the depth of my walk. It actually has nothing to do with my advisors, but I also think, personally, anthony, I think that we're called. God works through to your point, to the donkey or whatever. He works through the other people. And I should be looking like I'm literally. This is a great conversation for me.
Speaker 4:Sunday, I'm sitting in church and I wrote down on my piece of paper. I said currently I do not have a spiritual mentor. We can switch that word to advisor. I have spiritual advisors, but I don't have one local spiritual mentor and I'm going to go spiritual advisor for the sake of the language today. So I literally wrote that down. Well, if I'm not working towards my depth of my walk, my depth of my relationship. It's going to be really easy for me just to find somebody that's cool, that hits the right notes, and just go with them, instead of finding a real advisor. I think the three-prong approach that you spoke about moves towards that.
Speaker 2:Anthony, you brought up something I think it's important for us to kind of flush out here for a moment. Is you made the comment I'm really not interested that my strength trainer is a believer. He's giving me advice on how to lift. So is there a level throw? Is there other persons that that becomes the requirement? Is there peripheral folks in our life that it shouldn't matter? And there are certain persons that it does matter.
Speaker 4:Are you asking me a question or the crowd? Yeah, anybody wants to answer it. I think the short answer is I think Since you posted, I'll let you answer it.
Speaker 2:I think it probably does matter.
Speaker 4:The secret is you know my strength trainer is a believer, so I'm kind of dipping out of both sides of my mouth post it. I'll let you answer. I think it probably does matter. The the third little secret is you know my strength trainer is a believer so I'm kind of dipping out of both sides of my mouth here, but I don't think it needs to be now. If he's prescribing, okay, craziness to me, maybe. I think it does probably make a difference. Um, okay, but I'll full disclosure. I don't have a list. I think it moves. I mean, doing what I do, I believe all truth comes from God, so it doesn't really make a difference. I don't care where the truth comes from. This is real truth to come from God, and if it's not real truth, it's going to be seen, it's going to be fleshed out. Special revelation, general revelation, doesn't make a difference. If it's a real truth comes from, is comes from God. So, to answer your question, I'm not really sure. I don't have a list.
Speaker 2:But like I mean I tell clients that all the time that's the first thing you got from being Anthony.
Speaker 4:I mean I tell clients that all the time I'm like listen, I don't have to sit here and talk Jesus, god Bible, because if it's truth it comes from there. If it's not truth, it's going to be fleshed out. I think I don't have a list To answer your question. I think there is probably a list and I'll be completely honest, I don't think I have one. I think maybe I could come up with one in the next 30 minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me throw this in there. So this was a personal experience recently. I grew up up north in New York State, moved to Michigan. So I grew up North, it was in New York state for 25 years, moved to Michigan for 25 years, essentially and, um, you know, ben, when you talked about, uh, you know you, when you look for counsel a God fearing person, right, that fears God, be more aligned with your core values, accurately direct as counsel that fears God.
Speaker 1:One of the things that, like I don't know, ben, if you've experienced this or not one of the things that's been confusing to me at some level is, up North people rarely swore like in Christian circles, I don't, I don't mean like, uh, like people dropping F-bombs every day. It's not what I'm saying, but like just even a word here or there, like you just didn't hear it. And then I come down South and it's more common that I hear of folks that I would, based on what I know so far, based on what the Holy Spirit's revealed to me and my experience with them, that they do fear God. And yet I hear that language and I wonder, okay, how does that like, do they? And then the other thing is like I would have never. I can't ever remember a time in my life up in Michigan, up in like or New York, where I'd be sitting around a campfire with you know guys that put in that category of fearing God, and you know a couple of them have a beer in their hand and we're talking about the Bible in theology, and it's like, well, I get confused by that sometimes, Like those practical things we see in the world that people do.
Speaker 1:Here's another example there's a lot of people out there that don't raise their family or treat their wife like I treat mine. Yet they're God-fearing people and it's like I question sometimes would I take advice from them? Like what does God-fearing actually mean? Like, what does God fearing actually mean? Like, how do you, how do you? So sometimes I don't know if you experienced this, ben, or not, and maybe, maybe I overthink it and maybe it does come down to those three things and my and everything else goes out with the bath water.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Yeah, you guys know where I'm going with this. Does that make sense, like it. Just it feels like there's friction there when it comes to like, I want to say personal preferences or things they might do that don't align directly with me, does it use something about? Does it go against my core values? I think that's important to have core values, because if we don't, then we don't know right what to align them with. And other people that align with those that I would take deep counsel with we're talking about. Do I take advice from nonbelievers? I'm saying what about counsel with believers that don't do everything like I do?
Speaker 4:I was just going to say. I think one of the questions based on what you were saying, kevin, we have to ask ourselves is my religion getting in the way of my relationship? So let me say it again Is my religion getting in the way of my relationship? So let me say it again Is my religion getting in the way of my relationship? And when I say relationship, I'm talking about my relationship with Jesus. Specifically, I'm a follower of the way.
Speaker 4:I don't prescribe to a religious faith, anything I prescribe to, I'm a follower of Jesus. And so the question I ask a lot of people when they have these preferences because, good or bad, I get the plethora of preferences of Christians or believers that come and sit on my couch, and that's one of the questions I say is your religion or your sect of religion getting in the way of your relationship with Jesus? And so I might say the same thing. I'm kind of processing out loud here. I might say the same thing. I'm kind of processing out loud here. I might say the same thing about my advisors Am I allowing my religion which is a lot of times my preference, not always, but a lot of times my preference to get in the way of allowing the spirit to work, allowing God to work. Am I ignoring? Because I have this preference? I'm not sure if that was direction you're headed or not.
Speaker 5:Thanks, Anthony and Kevin. I've been saying Kevin, Should I say Wally Either one works, I'll answer either way.
Speaker 5:That's awesome. So I have found the most challenging counsel I've ever received. The most dangerous counsel is counsel from trusted advisors, because it goes so much deeper. It's already passed the tests, you know, and the litmus tests. And just to springboard from what some of you guys have been saying how do you trust? And just to springboard from what some of you guys have been saying how do you trust? Well, same thing that we've been talking about. What we're looking for really is the voice of God, and just because a person is walking with God doesn't always mean they're going to speak the words of God. They can also walk in their own wisdom or they give counsel that worked for them, but it just doesn't work in my situation. Then where do I go? I go back to the word of God and I listen to the Holy Spirit. Thankfully, we have these wonderful counselors, my wonderful counselors. One of my counselors, I'd say, is a concordance, a Strong's concordance, and the other one is a Webster's 1828 dictionary man. They are super cool and they don't really change that much.
Speaker 1:Not from 1828. That's amazing.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you know, I'm so grateful for those. The word love is a deep word and it comes from the word lieb in German. It means, and the root word of liberty is lieb, so it means to be free to set free. Liberty is Liban, so it means to be free to set free. And for a guy like me, I was a bachelor until I was 41, and my wife took mercy on me. But I was always looking for that person I could love. And during those 20 years, you want companionship. God wants companionship.
Speaker 5:He created that but you know, I'm just saying, these counselors counseled me during those years and I realized that I had a wrong view of love. I was thinking love is possession as a possession, but really it has to be setting someone free and it's almost the opposite. Isn't that incredible counsel from Webster's 1828 dictionary, you know? But we do look for counsel. I look for counsel in godly men, men whose children are walking in a good way, whose wife and children are in subjection to them in a godly way, in a biblical sense. And I guess what I look for is an elder or a deacon, those people who fulfill those qualifications, man, their words can go really deep. That's why we need the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to make sure that their words are correct, because we're going to act on them more likely than on the words of someone who isn't walking with God. So they can be the best and most dangerous counselors, for sure. They can be the best and most dangerous counselors for sure, but I'm so grateful for them. I could not be here. Without the counselors, I would never be here. I'm so grateful for my counselors.
Speaker 5:One of my favorite counselors was a man that just showed his love to me by writing and investing and discipling me in the Lord. He shared with me something that just didn't work for me and I used it for many years. But when I stopped using that theory, he'd given me that worked for him. It was what God taught him. When I stopped using that, I was set free and my business took off. Does that mean that I doubt his counsel in the future? No, I know he had good intentions. He was just sharing with me what God showed him for him. But you know the old saying others may you, may not. God speaks to each person individually, right where they are and they need that word, and it may be different, but that's why we have those other counselors to bounce these things off, of make sure we're not out of line with Scripture or offending the Holy Spirit or offending our brothers.
Speaker 2:Ben, you had a really good point a few moments ago. I want to circle back on just for a second. You said you may give me great advice, but currently that doesn't work for me, and I think so often we're not ready to receive what it is that the person is offering, or possibly the context is different in your personal situation. It's. One of the very fundamental practices in a mastermind is not to necessarily give direction, but to ask better questions, and so we find ourselves oftentimes giving advice that is good for us and our family, but it's not applicable to others, and so I didn't want that to get lost in this conversation. I think you're spot on in the timing is important, and we need to learn to ask better questions rather than giving forward advice.
Speaker 5:Amen, when we start I totally do that and it's a real bad habit is when someone comes asks for something specific, or I see a specific need and I elaborate and then I go into other lessons. I am so off track and this is where it really hits home like I have become that counselor I don't want to listen to because we're we're sharing more. A guy just asked for 10 bucks and I give him 150. I mean, all he needed was 10 bucks. You know that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Something I picked up in what you were saying a little earlier, ben, is that the guys listen to this today and I forget this, like being in mastermind groups now for eight years and and like it's it's easy sometimes to get lazy, thinking that counsel is the answer. Counsel gives perspective To your point. That specific perspective or way of doing something may not be exactly how God wants you to do it, but that counsel helps you weed that out of what God really wants you to do. That's been my experience, and when I just take counsel at face value and say, oh, here's my two choices this guy did this and this guy did this and I don't vet that out for myself, that's when I get myself in trouble.
Speaker 1:Exactly like you were talking about right, like you took counsel, said, oh, this is the thing I'm going to do the thing because that worked Well. Oh, this is the thing I'm going to do the thing because that worked Well. Ultimately that's not the way God wanted you to execute it, but you learn that right through that process. So we all have like a tremendous amount of personal responsibility, even in receiving counsel.
Speaker 5:Yeah, amen. There is a. We don't want to go against the counsel of God and his counsel is always there. So someone counseled me and what I did was I tried to implement it and it crippled me in a major area. The thought was this it sounds spiritual and it was. For him it was spiritual but for me it simply didn't work and that was weight.
Speaker 5:All the work that would come to me is presumably more of the lord than the work that I would go out and find for myself and don't advertise because it would bring the kind of work you may not want. So the riskier work, the stuff that doesn't go well. And that was their experience and they learned that through painful lessons and they applied it in their lives and they lived simple, godly lives and I respected them. I appreciated that and I used that and at some point I couldn't pay my bills anymore because I'd moved to a new area with no contacts or context and I realized I had to decide was that of God or was that of a man? And if it wasn't of God, lord, what is of you? And when I left, where I was sitting waiting for my, I left. I left running because he gave me a verse.
Speaker 5:God spoke to me then like, wow, when the counsel of man ends and the counsel of God begins, there is so much power. And God spoke to me. He said let him that stole, steal no more, but let him labor, working with his hands out which is good that he may have to give to those that are in need. And I thought I was working for my own needs and there was a problem with that. And I realized he doesn't. He can bless me and but it's it doesn't. He's not necessarily wanting to just bless me, he wants to bless others through me. So I'm supposed to be a conduit.
Speaker 5:And so I got up and I realized that, man, I'm going to go out and hunt for work, but it's not for me. I'm going to go say hey guys, my bill was, you know, two months ago. Why hasn't it been paid? But it's not for me. You know I'm now fighting for those that he has intended his resources to go towards and it's coming through me. I'm super excited to be a conduit of God's thousand cattle, cattle on a thousand hills. You know I get to be his conduit. So it changed so many things. But that was the counsel of God and it was balanced with his word, it was consistent with his word, the Holy Spirit. It brought joy to my spirit and it was affirmed in the lives of others because it brought blessing. And I didn't have anyone saying, no, that doesn't sound like the voice of God. It was the opposite. So again, it was confirmed.
Speaker 2:And let me ask you a question. So again, it was confirmed, Ben, let me ask you a question. We obviously have come to the determination that you want to surround yourself with godly believers that are going to give you advice, and I agree. But what if you were placed in a particular relationship for the benefit of that person rather than yourself? How do you determine? If you only surround yourself with believers at all times? There's no way for you to share the gospel with other people. So how do you make the determination who the relationship is for?
Speaker 5:That's an interesting question. I think that you may be in a different position than I. In life I have been very much a recipient. I've been giving work, but not a lot of counsel or guidance, as it's not quite where I am. I have a very young family. I haven't necessarily proven myself in that area yet like you have, but have. But that's a good question, whether it's for that person or for me. Is that what you're asking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's when you're entering into the relationship rather than looking for counsel. How do you determine whether you're the one that's to be giving the counsel for the benefit of the other person rather than the recipient of the counsel?
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's again a Holy Spirit thing. Man, that's a good question to have when we're in a conversation, but I would say what determines that would be the course of the conversation and the Holy Spirit. And you know, we have the Word embedded in us, right? We read a lot of it.
Speaker 2:so we have that counsel, but I think my point in making the statement or the asking. The question was is that we need to be constantly reminded to be a giver and not a taker, because I think that's one of the gifts that we're given as godly men to give advice, to help, to support, to encourage, to lift up, to loan other people. You know our courage when they don't have any, and so I think oftentimes we'll get a lot more of the natural reciprocity if we go at it with a giving rather than a taking mindset. So just food for thought as we go through seeking advice, we need to be constantly looking for opportunities to give advice.
Speaker 5:You're so right, and I haven't been thinking of provision as advice. I've been so focused on the physical provision, giving people jobs. And you know, honestly, I feel like I have so much to learn. I don't have a lot to give yet. But when does that stop? I mean, does anyone ever?
Speaker 2:I don't know when you ever get to a point where you feel like you've arrived Right, and so I think it's ongoing and I can already tell, even on this call you're a man of great wisdom and you have plenty to offer today. You're a man of great wisdom and you have plenty to offer today, and so I would suggest that you look at it from that aspect, anthony Wally Brett, before we end up today, any further counsel or advice or clarity that we could pour into Ben.
Speaker 3:I would just say, thinking through this and listening to him and the wealth of knowledge just from what little bit I've been around. Ben, there's not any counselors in my life and I agree with you on on all of our counsel and how we seek counsel. The counsel in my life everybody I have in my circle, I would say, are believers, and just thinking of the really close guys that I even have here in my life, there's times I don't want to call them and talk to them about a situation because I'm mad and I want to do what I want to do and I know that if I call Josh Turpin and I tell him what I'm going to do, he's going to throw scripture back in my face. He's going to text me scripture and I'm probably going to wake up tomorrow morning with scripture thrown back in my face of living a godly life, being obedient to God. And I can choose him or I can choose somebody else, and I know other people in my life that are just going to fuel my anger in that situation.
Speaker 3:Uh, but to be honest with you, I choose Josh a lot of times, big, a different people in my life and, uh, I honestly I've never thought about this until today, um, but that's where I'm going to get my counsel. The guys in my mastermind group, um and I, and I truly believe that they're going to hit me back with that truth that I'm going to get my counsel. The guys in my mastermind group, um and I, and I truly believe that they're going to hit me back with that truth that I need to hear, rather than what I want to hear. I can tell myself all the rational lies I want, um, but who is going to be the sword of truth in my life? Um, so, yeah, that that that's for me, thinking through this, and I can tell you story after story where those guys have hit me with truth that I really didn't want to hear, but I needed to hear it in the moment.
Speaker 2:That's back to Anthony's point earlier is that the truth is going to find its way to the top Ultimately, everything else is going to be exposed.
Speaker 4:Anthony.
Speaker 2:Wally. Any final comments or thoughts?
Speaker 4:I think as you develop in your relationship with your God, you're going to be able to develop into your relationship with developing trusted advisors.
Speaker 2:It's a good word, wally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something that that is a good word, anthony, I almost feel like I shouldn't say anything now, like that should be the end. But I'll say what I'm going to say anyway, up until today, like I hadn't really considered, just because you hear, just because somebody tells you something, just because you're in a situation where that person may or may not be a believer, you may not even know, and they tell you something, they give you advice, their opinion. It doesn't mean you have to take it as counsel. Like we get to choose, and so we can easily discern what the truth of the word, the Holy Spirit. We can pretty easily discern most of the time if that should even be considered or not, and so I took that away today.
Speaker 1:And then I was reminded today too, just about the individual responsibility we each have. Ben, your example of you know, listening to advice of somebody else and it didn't work out for you. I've done that too, and sometimes it's easy to blame it on them then if it doesn't work out right, if we don't take the initiative to search that out as truth and weed through the counsel of others and weed through the counsel of others. So that's a good word from today. I appreciate you working through the challenge and you bringing it up and wanting to talk about it today and yeah, it's been a blessing to me.
Speaker 2:Thanks as we end today. Yeah, I want to personally thank you being for being willing to be unmasked, first and foremost, to be vulnerable and to be transparent. It shows of the character and the integrity that you walk in, and so I'm extremely grateful that you came today to do that. So, just for the audience that's listening today, think about how you take advice, think about the criteria that is involved. Do you think about it at this level or should you? Should you really seek out persons of faith to give you advice, and how could we better approach this in a manner that would serve us well, serve our God well and serve your family well?
Speaker 1:Hey guys, as we finish up today, please remember to go out to viewfromthetopcom slash community to get connected into the ISI community and, just as Ben was on today talking about this topic of taking advice where we take it from and all the details, those conversations are continuing over in the ISI app. So please go to viewfromthetopcom slash community and get connected there and we will see you there or we'll see you here next week.