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ISI Brotherhood Podcast
A podcast for growth-minded Christian businessmen who desire momentum and accountability in their business, family, finances, faith, and personal wellness. Each week, Aaron Walker, also known as Big A, shares authentically from decades of business ownership, marriage, and raising a family. He takes on listener questions and deep-dive into FORGE episodes with tried and tested co-hosts. Subscribe and visit our website https://www.isibrotherhood.com/podcast
ISI Brotherhood Podcast
107. Which Mastermind Group Should You Choose?
There is an abundance of mastermind groups out there–which one is right for YOU?
Today we're discussing how to tap into a powerhouse of knowledge and support to transform your business journey. We'll unravel the various decisions you must make before choosing the ideal mastermind group for you. We kick off with personal tales of our own initial skepticism about mastermind groups, revealing how vulnerability and transparency can become unexpected allies in your success story.
Listen as we explore the criteria for selecting the most fitting peer advisory group, whether you're seeking a business-centric circle, a holistic growth experience, or a balance of both.
Key Takeaways:
- Foundational criteria of different types of masterminds
- Questions to ask yourself when choosing a mastermind group
- Types and categories of masterminds and peer advisory groups
- Downloadable guide with categorized groups, links, and more
Navigating the business landscape alone can feel like being adrift in uncharted waters. Reflecting on our own experiences, we’ve faced the challenges of entrepreneurship without mentorship, missing out on the invaluable guidance that peer advisory groups provide.
Listen as we dissect the overwhelming plethora of options out there and arm you with the tools to make decisions that will enhance accountability and drive your progress forward.
Mastermind Group Guide: https://isibrotherhood.com/whichone
Iron Sharpens Iron Community: https://isibrotherhood.com/community
If you want to hear more speakers like this every month and be with the guys on the call, join the Iron Sharpens Iron Community today: https://www.isibrotherhood.com/isi-community
Connect with Big A:
View From The Top Website: https://isibrotherhood.com
The ISI Newsletter: https://www.isibrotherhood.com/newsletter
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Hey everybody, welcome back to View From the Top podcast, where we help growth-minded men who desire momentum in their business, their family and their finances get through the valleys and up the mountain to their very own view from the top.
Speaker 1:Hey, if you're listening right now, you are probably thinking of joining a peer advisory mastermind or maybe some type of business networking group. I mean, after all, that's what we promised in the title, right as we're going to dive into these and, frankly, it's tough to narrow down and decide. You know which group might be best for where you are at and what you need. Well, good news, today's episode will help educate you in making an informed decision and, as a gift to you, we've also assembled what I think is the most comprehensive list of available groups, with a top seven questions you must answer guide to help you decide on the group that you would be in the best place to accomplish the dreams and goals that you have for you and your family. So we announce how to get that guide at the end of today's conversation. So be sure to hang out, listen in and listen through. All right, without further ado, let's get in the studio the guy that's been hitting the gym and casting the rod Welcome.
Speaker 2:Big Hay. Come on casting the rod and in the gym. I like those two things.
Speaker 1:That's good.
Speaker 2:You know, what's funny is I used to hate going to the gym and I've started enjoying it, even talking to my trainer about maybe doing a few more sessions a week, and so I don't know what that's going to look like but I'm starting to really enjoy doing it. Fishing's been terrible, though. I just want to tell you, wally, this has been the worst year for fishing for me since I can remember fishing and I don't know what the problem is.
Speaker 1:Is it like worse than getting to the lake or worse than like you're not catching? No, not catching, it's like I get there and I'm fishing.
Speaker 2:I'm not catching it. I'm like what is the world? Oh, hickory Lake is noted for all the tournaments and I think that, to be honest, I'm my own worst problem because I've got that new live view where you can see the fish. You can pull up and you get. My wife said it's cheating. I said I know I love it, but anyway, I think, that's what's happening to fishing.
Speaker 2:All these young guys have got live view and they're cleaning the bass out. I was like what in the world is going on? But yeah, the gym's fun. Fishing sucks. But uh, the fishing's going to be better. Uh, here we are, in the fall. It's going to be a little better, hopefully, prayerfully.
Speaker 1:How you been, how you been, wally, you been doing good, I'm doing well, man Talking about the gym I started up about I don't know, it's been about six weeks ago now, I think. Back to the gym we got a new gym that opened up brand new facility right at the front of our subdivision, and so it's like a three-minute drive for me. I could walk if I wanted to and I've been getting in there and doing some group fitness, which really isn't my thing, I thought. But it's interesting how just being in a group of people elevates accountability. It's not so silly, it does, but it just does. And man isn't that ironic. I said that I didn't even think about it, but that's kind of exactly what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2:It is. It is, yeah, you know. It's an option that was available, you were unaware of and now is serving a need. Isn't that interesting how we don't know what we don't know and then sometimes we discover something that's really been meaningful and helpful along the way, and that's the reason we have a growth mindset, right?
Speaker 1:We don't have a fixed mindset.
Speaker 2:That's right. We have a growth mindset and as we kind of dive into, what we're talking about today is different masterminds, peer advisory groups, board of directors, whatever you want to call them. I started thinking through this a little bit and, wally, it seems like that the opportunities and the choices and the decision fatigue that we have to go through because there's so many choices today, there are. There are, I'll be honest with you, and I don't do good oftentimes when there's too many. Robin gets so mad at me. We'll go to Baskin-Robbins to get ice cream and I'm like there's 30-something flavors in here. I don't know which one I want, and so I was like give me vanilla or give me chocolate chip cookie dough. That's my favorite, by the way, walt, if you ever want to buy me ice cream, chocolate chip cookie dough is the thing.
Speaker 2:You know, we were in the construction industry for years, built high-end residence, small commercial, prior to me retiring, you know, 13 years ago, and I remember back I was thinking about this little bit, this decision fatigue situation that we put ourselves in, and we were building pretty high-end residents and most of these homeowners could afford anything that they wanted, and it took twice as long to build these houses because they couldn't make decisions. They were like when you're building a $200,000 house, you got oil, rub, bronze and nickel to choose from on the hinges, but when you're building a million-dollar house or $2 million house, it's unlimited the choices and they could never decide. It would take forever. We had to factor that into our margins because we knew that we were going to be tied up on these homes longer. I think it's coming to that today with everything that we're dealing with, and it even goes into these mastermind groups, peer advisory.
Speaker 2:There's just so many things. When I started thinking about this a little bit, I thought man, it used to be simple and this is probably an elementary example, but back in the 1700s there was one manufacturer of soap. That was it right. There was one soap that you could get back in the 1700s and now there's countless brands in the united states alone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's countless.
Speaker 2:I mean it's like, really do we need that? Robin asked me what kind of soap now.
Speaker 1:There's crap. Soap there's crap. There's a soap store now.
Speaker 2:Buff City.
Speaker 1:Soap. It's literally a store of soap. Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:You know we use goat milk soap. I'll give him a little shout out right now Robin loves that soap. You know Jim's a great guy. He was in our mastermind group for years and years and years Great guy. We've watched that business grow. But she says it makes my skin feel soft and I'm like, okay, robin whatever makes your skin feel soft.
Speaker 2:I'm interested in that. But then, when you think about some of the modern day things that we're dealing with today, you know I thought about cryptocurrency, like there was Bitcoin right when it first back in 2009,. There was Bitcoin.
Speaker 1:That wasn't that long ago, Was that no 2009.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not long at all. 15 years ago there was Bitcoin. That was your choice in cryptocurrency Wally. Take a stab at how many opportunities there are now when you are talking about cryptocurrency.
Speaker 1:Just with cryptocurrency.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just cryptocurrency, three to 500. 9,000. What 9,000. What 9,000. And it's like, really, we went from Bitcoin to 9,000. Are those like active? Active currently, and they're growing with leaps and bounds. You know doge, go buy you some doge. You know it's not even a real thing. Here's what's more embarrassing than that. I bought some. It's like what I did I did I bought some doge. It actually made a little money on it but anyway, that was kind of funny.
Speaker 2:But you know, talking about the topic that we're talking about today, back in 1957, there was one peer advisory group. Now there were other things prior to that. You know, carnegie was involved in a mastermind group and he attributes a lot of his wealth, so there's a lot of those guys. But officially there was one peer advisory group and it was known as the Executive Committee. Some people know it as TEC. It was back in 1957. But it's now known as Vistage and we want to give a shout out to Vistage.
Speaker 2:They do a great job.
Speaker 2:Robert Neuwirth in Milwaukee is the guy that discovered that and put it together, and he really wanted to kind of aim his efforts at CEOs and business leaders and he kind of wanted to have a real structured environment. He wanted it to be confidential in nature, which we've adopted some of those principles ourselves, but it was one, and now there's literally hundreds of groups, like where you look everywhere you know, somebody is starting either a mastermind or they're starting a peer advisory group. Some of them call them networking, some of them call them networking, some of them call them focus groups. You know, and we've done a lot of homework on this. You know, and I'll be honest with you, I'm going to give you the kudos for doing a lot of the homework, because you've really navigated through a lot of the options, the things that are out there, and we've had our own experiences.
Speaker 2:You and I have been involved, and I think I've been involved in these peer advisory groups a little longer than you, but you've really really dove into it. And I do want to talk about, just for a second, some of the variables that we might want to use as we think about becoming a party, an interested party, in one of these groups. But here's what I want to give a little bit of personal testimony and I don't want to be self-serving in this as we talk about this, but we do want to talk about the realities that we've been involved in personally.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I want to tell you I was thinking about this even prior to us hitting the record button. I would give anything if someone had introduced me to this concept when I was first starting my career. Oh man, because I didn't have a clue and I was thinking about this and even as I jotted down some notes, I thought well, there's too many things to even write down. We could talk a whole episode in this one thing I'm about to say. But I didn't know my butt from third base. I didn't have a clue. When I went into business, I didn't have anybody around. Like I didn't know my butt from third base. I didn't have a clue. When I went into business, I didn't have anybody around me. I didn't have anybody to instruct me, to encourage me, and when I look back now I'm almost embarrassed.
Speaker 2:Like when I look back now I think about I didn't have written stated core values. I didn't have a written mission statement. I didn't have KRAs or KPIs. I didn't even know what that even meant at the time. I didn't have anybody to teach me how to scale. I didn't have anybody to teach me that the most valuable asset that there is is other people's perspective. I was like I got in there, I was a knucklehead. I was a hardheaded guy, business owner, determination, perseverance. I didn't tell anybody when I messed up. I got in there, I was a knucklehead. I was a hardheaded guy, business owner, determination, perseverance. I didn't tell anybody when I messed up, I just fixed it privately. And I'm like I wonder how much better off I would have been today, financially and personally and spiritually, if I had had somebody to direct me, help me, guide me, similar core values and understand how to really grow a business effectively. And I spent two decades owning numbers of businesses without the aid of any help. And today I'm embarrassed to admit that.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, it's like how would you know any difference if you don't know?
Speaker 2:You don't know what you don't know. I mean, it's like how would you know any difference if?
Speaker 1:you don't know, you know. You don't know what you don't know. Back in that day I mean, I'm not going back to ninth, was it 1957? You said that the first one was kind of organized. Yeah, were you alive then? You were alive then, right.
Speaker 2:I wasn't 61. I was born in 61.
Speaker 1:Don't make me older than I am the these. There weren't a lot of these groups, I would say until, um, I know, I know which book? Uh, there's a guy that talks about mastermind groups. Um, ah, it's a popular book. I can't think of it. It's a short one, not norman vincent peel, but um, uh, I can't think of the book. Anyway, they talk about these mastermind. You mentioned carnegie. Uh, carnegie, and some of those guys as well. But you know, historically, when I did look up a lot of this information and look back and did some research and our team helped, you know they were very small, private like typically very high net worth groups, right that we're meeting.
Speaker 1:And today, even over the last 10 years, like you said, that's drastically changed. And so when you were in business you had been in business for over 40 years, different times, different places, different businesses and you know those really weren't talked about or that popular or that well-known. It wasn't until what, 20, 25 years ago, that you really kind of got introduced to the just part of your story actually, yeah, kind of introduced to the first idea of a mastermind um like a peer advisory group and I pushed, I pushed it back on it when I was invited.
Speaker 1:I was like you want to do it yeah yeah, I didn't.
Speaker 2:But first of all, when the guy invited me to join, I'd never heard the term mastermind. He goes I want you to join my mastermind group and I'm like what are you doing there?
Speaker 1:like I don't know what that is a little, was that little? Uh dude, that's like an old cartoon about going to mastermind of the world. Take over the world.
Speaker 2:I know he's like what are we going to do? I thought it was illegal at first.
Speaker 2:I was like what are we getting there? Are we going to rob banks or what are we going to do? And this guy, he started laughing kind of like you're doing right now, and he invited me. He goes Big A, just come to the group, let me introduce you to the guys. And I went home and told Robin that I didn't want to do it, and she said why don't you just give it a chance? And I'm like you know what I'm going to tell you, and I've said this to others that have heard me do podcast interviews before. You've heard this story.
Speaker 2:But it's like I I didn't want to be vulnerable, I didn't want to be transparent, because I had some areas of my life that I was embarrassed about and there was things that I was pretending that I knew, that I didn't, and there was debt that I had that was overcoming some obstacles because I was too bullheaded to do it differently, and so it was expensive education. And then I didn't want people to know that Robin and I argued over certain things and I didn't want them to know that I had teenage daughters that were knuckleheads sometimes and I was like I don't want the world to know that stuff, and so I was reserved to joining any groups because I didn't want people to know that I didn't have it all together. I wanted to lead them to believe that I had everything figured out. It was pride, it was ego.
Speaker 1:We all struggle with that at some level, don't we? Yeah, but what I?
Speaker 2:found out as a result of that over 25 years is that when you are vulnerable and transparent to the right people, now don't go out there and do it to the wrong people.
Speaker 2:They'll use it against you. But when you do it to the right people, they'll use it against you. But when you do it to the right people, it endears you to that person and it gives you a firm foundation by which you can build something that's remarkable. And so, for me, learning that took a number of years. Like when I went to that first group, I was quiet for the first three months. I didn't say anything. I mean, they barely knew who my name was and it was like well, then they started divulging things in their life that they were struggling with and I could identify.
Speaker 2:I was like dude, I'm struggling with cash flow myself and like Robin and I don't always get along, like we got this roadblock in our marriage and I don't know what to do. It's like she's stubborn, I'm stubborn and we've reached this impasse. And I remember Ron Dole telling me about him and Barbie. He said Big A said Barbie and I have been married longer than you. And let me tell you what we did when we reached that. And I went home and I talked to Robin about it and she said why didn't we think of that?
Speaker 1:And I'm like I don't know, I didn't yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, but that went into relationships and that went into resources and networking and challenging and accountability and structuring your business and teaching you to scale. And I was like that's a whole nother world out there, like I didn't even know this stuff existed. And from that point I can show you on a graph how our businesses took off. I grew personally, I grew spiritually, I was held accountable and I was like man, this is an incredible way to do life and to do business and so, yeah, but we find ourselves today in like, how do we choose? Like, okay, right, how do we choose? And I know you've done a little research on this and there's different buckets and there's different things, so why don't you highlight that a little bit in some of your discovery?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, we were doing the research on this. There's everything from like high level CEO stuff, and we'll dive into some of these, you know, all the way down to like one-on-one coaching. That's not really something we're talking about today, but there is a place for that. So let's kind of work through these. If you're primarily talking to business owners today, right, those guys, you're out there listening in the audience. Where you have a business, you got a family.
Speaker 1:Or high-level decision makers yes, Yep, business owners, high-level decision makers, yep. So if you've got like there's groups out there like, let's say, vistage you mentioned Vistage and C12. They are definitely designed more along the C-suite or that CEO president type. There's many other ones too and like we're going to have all these ones that we don't have time to even list today, we're going to have all those in that download at the end. So be sure to look for that. But lots of them that are out there. But really for those high level CEO types, they have unique challenges, they have unique things they're trying to solve for in their businesses that say someone else may not. There's different groups that serve different industry verticals. So you know there's strictly in manufacturing, strictly in marketing, strictly in certain types of marketing and manufacturing, and there's topical group niche. Uh, you know we've got. We just did a um, a uh, a pod episode last week with uh, with Jim.
Speaker 1:Cockrum, yeah, and he focuses on what Like Amazon sellers kind of create e Cockrum, yeah, and he focuses on what, like Amazon sellers kind of create e-commerce, yeah, e commerce, and so, uh, silentjimcom, that's. That's it. It's a very private, private niche. Uh, real estate investing groups there's lots of lots of different. I mean how many different types of real estate investing groups you know are are out there to help you get your brain wrapped around, and there's subsets of that right Inside of there's multifamily, single family, all of our kinds of stuff. There's marketing groups. If you're into marketing, we have one in our Champagne Marketing with Derek Champagne for marketing leaders like that. They focus on that.
Speaker 2:That's all he deals with, right? That's all they do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they strictly focus on marketing.
Speaker 2:We want to give a shout out to them too. If that's a space you're looking for, Derek Champagne does an amazing job with that Champagne marketing and so reach out to us, reach out to Derek, we can hook you up with that. But yeah, in a niche market, in that vertical man, they're crushing that space.
Speaker 1:They're crushing that space. Yeah, they're doing well. Uh, there's general marketing groups. We're all familiar. Probably the first one we've all heard about, right, it's chamber of commerce. I mean that's, that's the one that probably everybody hears about, knows about. Um, I don't know if you've ever been to one of those. You probably. I know you have. But guys listening out there, I get a little disappointed and we'll talk about why.
Speaker 1:Some of the reasons are for these different types of groups how you might fit, how you might not fit. We have some questions we're going to talk about in just a minute. So there's B&A groups that are strictly, really primarily for networking, similar to Chamber of Commerce, and so you've got those types of groups and there's a bunch of those out there, and you've got what I like to call whole person groups. You know, those groups that focus on they're not just niched in, they're not just on marketing, but I think of it as more of alignment, so they're more like life alignment type groups, right, so, selfishly for us. We know everybody listening to this podcast, you know that we're involved with Iron, sharpens, iron and that has a community and a mastermind, right, and so we focus in there on all areas of life the ISI, the ISI man, five Pillars of Transformation, and that covers personally, professionally, relationally, financially and spiritually.
Speaker 1:And so there's other groups out there as well that do similar things to Iron, sharp as Iron, and they're not just focused on one little thing, they're taking hey, holistically, but those are life alignment type groups, like you're probably not going to go there, you're not going to come to ISI. We're for Christian businessmen, right, who desire, like desirement to have families, have businesses, and so you may find another one that's totally opposite. You may find, you know, you may find a women's specific one, you may find age specific one, right, I mean, if you have a startup or scale up and they have, but they have life alignment to them. So there's lots of different ones out there. And then there's the one-on-one coaching type stuff, or even group coaching, which is a little different than I would say, like a mastermind or a peer advisory or board of director type group, but they still can have value. The point is, it's a choice. So in all of what we just said, I don't know, we just put them in like what, five categories or so, but there's literally hundreds.
Speaker 2:Wally, I want to give a little context, if I could. I'll pause here for a minute because I want to say something. Little context, if I could. I'll pause here for a minute because I want to say something and I don't want us to skip over it. I want to kind of give a word of caution to all of us, not just to us, but to everyone. So when I first started getting involved in a mastermind group we'll just use that language for today it's called mastermind group. Right, we know we're talking about very diverse peer advisory board directors all the same, but let's just call it Mastermind.
Speaker 2:My sole focus at that time was business. Once I discovered that there was benefit in this, I went all in on the business side and through the course of my life, our businesses became successful no-transcript. And that is the reason that we try to focus today on the whole man, because there's value at different times in different segments of your life. And we get a lot of people come to us, initially for the business, but they discover later that they've grown their business but they've done it from a relationship, capital standpoint. They're like taken from their spouse, they're taken from their children, taken from their colleagues, their other peers, and they're like man, what do I do now? It's like I got some money but I don't know my wife, or I've got some money and I never go to my kid's ballgame, or I've done well, but my buddies at church, you know, are out doing other things and I don't have a relationship with them.
Speaker 2:And it was a real wake up call to me to go. You know what? Just think of it as kind of a three-legged stool. You know it's going to wobble if something is not appropriately paid attention to. And so for me I had to go back and divvy up my time a little bit and go okay, money's important. Back and divvy up my time a little bit and go okay, money's important. I want to make money. I need it to do the things I want to do.
Speaker 2:But it's pretty sad to have a lot of money and my wife don't want to go to a movie with me or doesn't want to go on vacation with me, or my girls are like oh, you're coming to the ball game tonight and I'm like man. That that's not well. And so what I discovered through that is that we can have a measure of success in one area, but if we're not paying attention, it could really be costly in the other. So, whatever you're doing today, if you're listening to this episode and you're like man, I got to make money yeah, you do, and I want to help you do that. But I don't want you to lose sight of these other things. And we have built it to where there's five key pillars of your life and, regardless of what you're doing professionally, you're going to deal with these things, and that's personally, professionally, relationally, spiritually and financially. And so you may not be paying attention today to all five areas, but you will pay attention one way or the other. At some, point.
Speaker 1:You get to choose to or you get to be forced to, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one or the other, you're going to pay attention to it, right Through force or through election, and so I just want you to keep that at the forefront of your mind as you're deciding what's good for you as you go forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's really good. You know some of the questions, some of that foundational criteria. I think that that you know we ought to consider, and you just mentioned some of it. Right, there may be times when you know we want to lean into one area of our life more than another. There, there may be times when you need to focus on one thing more than the other, but you can't ignore any of them.
Speaker 2:It's not going away because you're ignoring it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's dive into some questions and some criteria. Let's focus on criteria first and your observation. What are some foundational criteria to like different types of all the groups, like there's different choices but there's criteria to kind of choose from a which one might be better for you, suited for you. You align with this, don't align with that. What are some of that criteria you can think of?
Speaker 2:Well, I can speak to personal preferences as well as what's available. But for me and I think most people would agree with this statement even though we're virtual in nature, in person there's some dynamic about in person.
Speaker 1:That's invaluable Right, and that's in everything that we deal with Having some face time. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just is, and we try to cover both. Like, our meetups are virtual so that we can tap into people all over the world, and we're literally in five countries now, and so we want the ability because you may live in a community that you don't have people that can help you in person in your community. You're like, well, I live in a small town and those people are not here and they can't teach me. So for you I would say, hey, virtual is great, but let's maybe twice a year get together in person, which is exactly what we do. I love to get in person because you know I'm a relational guy. I love to hug you and shake your hand and, you know, have a meal with you, pray with you, encourage you, challenge you. I love to do those things in person. But I'm not going to not meet because I can't meet in person, like virtual.
Speaker 2:We were popular using virtual way before COVID, right? I mean, we've been doing virtual for 11 years, when people didn't even know what Zoom was. We started using a virtual platform and so we've done that. So everybody has a certain preference. But don't not meet because you can't meet in person, right, there's virtual opportunities.
Speaker 1:Some groups you know, like you mentioned, isi does both. Some groups only do virtual, they never meet in person and that you know you're really not probably in that one to build lifelong friends Right, Because the way it's set up it's not set up for that. You just need the information Right, like information Right, you're going to take it, you're going to apply it, you're going to move on. So that type of setup I think think is great. And other ones you know, like I know a bunch of them meet once a month in person and they don't meet at all any other time. They just do once a month thing, they meet in person and they go on.
Speaker 1:And you may find for you that you know time-wise and stuff, that that's that works out well. Or you may be like, hey, it's really not quite enough, works out well. Or you may be like, hey, it's really not quite enough, right, like you. Just, every group does it a little bit different and you got to kind of find the cadence. But those are the kind of there's the virtual only, in-person only, and then there's kind of that hybrid.
Speaker 2:I think it's important to say Wally, we're not here to say there's a right or a wrong way. Yeah, there's options which praise God for options.
Speaker 2:I love options because at this point in my life, this option may be best. At this point in my life, this option may be best, and so you've just got to weigh it out, what you're trying to accomplish in the best vehicle by which you can get there. And so our responsibility is to make you think outside the box of things that are coming or things that you need to consider as well. That is the reason for this today. Not to say our way is the right way. It's to give you the option, you know. The other thing that I think is important to mention is there's cost associated with some groups. There's free, that is to some groups. You can say or argue the point that there's value in one over the other. Here's typically what I've seen personally Historically.
Speaker 2:When it's free, people don't place a lot of value and there's a lack of consistency. That's not always the case, but I'm saying historically, if something better comes along that is going to take the place of your free meeting, there's no value for you to go to that, because you're not no skin in the game, you haven't lost anything. No, buying yeah. So here's the danger of that is that it's hard to catch up to speed when you come back. It's like because you've missed a lot that's transpired in the lives of the other participants Ours. There's a cost associated with it and I know when I'm paying I pay attention. It's like I've got an investment and I want to get an ROI. I want to get a return for that investment and I think historically that's true for everyone. I paid for this and I would like to get this in return.
Speaker 2:But then the other thing is is there's limited accountability. When it's free, it's like, hey, there's no skin in the game. I'm not asking you to hold me accountable. I'm paying for people to ask me the hard questions. I'm subjecting myself to the scrutiny of other people and I'm paying money to be in alignment. I want to be around people that share similar core values, that have a mission statement, that are determined, that are persevering to accomplish and aspirations to grow. It's like, no, I'm paying to be in this environment and it exponentially grows me in every one of those areas because I'm focused, I'm paying attention. There again, I want to say for the third and final time there are exceptions that things are free and they're valuable, but what I haven't seen is anything that's free that's consistently valuable over an extended period of time.
Speaker 1:You know. The difference there, I would say, is I see a lot of organizations and businesses and things that they'll give away a lot of information for free, and I found this interesting over the years is that people will give away the what here's what to do, not the how, not the how, and because the how is where the magic sauce is Right. Right, and I think that you know, information can be fairly cheap. Relationships are actually expensive. I mean, real relationships are expensive.
Speaker 1:It's a huge cost. Yeah, and I'm not talking just money, right, Like there's, there's an yeah, there's emotional investment and time investment and all of that. So I've seen, I've seen masterminds. I know you have too, that I'm sure guys listening today have been like, yeah, I've seen those. There's masterminds that are, you know, 49 bucks a month, a couple hundred bucks a month. I've seen them 10,000 a month. I've seen them 50,000 a year, a hundred thousand dollars a year. Now, those are extreme cases, Right, they're out there.
Speaker 1:But here's something that I'm beginning even now. You know my stage of life, where I'm at start to recognize that man, like and maybe I shouldn't say this on the podcast, but I think this is a reality the kind of people that you want to be in the room with to learn from don't want to be with people that are in the room not to learn and not to be committed. And so when you make something appropriately priced, think about your own product and your service as a business. Right, Like there's that exchange In a mastermind type group. Like I want to know that we're all coming to the table and that we've got some buy-in, because then I'm going to be invested and people are going to be real and not not mess around, and those are the kinds of guys that I want to be around.
Speaker 1:I don't want to. Honestly, I don't really want to be around guys that just want to show up periodically or, you know, not really invested. And I'm talking about, like the core, like you know, close circle of influence, a circle of impact type guys, right, Not that you don't have friends and you don't have acquaintances and you don't have business networks. You do, but you're talking about people that you're going to learn from and you're going to speak into. You know, most guys that I want to be around aren't going to sign up for free.
Speaker 2:Well, they don't, because they don't equate any value to that. You know it's just mentally you don't equate any value to something that's free. Yeah, and Dr David Kruger has kind of worked with me. He was head of psychology at Baylor University and I hired him years ago to coach me and he was talking about when we invest something, there's a feeling of commitment, we've got buy-in, we listen more intently, we're more involved and you've got other caliber people that are around you that are similar in nature.
Speaker 2:And when I start thinking about this, it's for the most serious things of my life. We're talking about how to grow my business, my ability to earn a living for my family. We're talking about my relationship with my spouse, the number one person in my life. I want people that are bought in and they're invested in the relationship, that they're willing to make a commitment to give me advice. Robin and I have been married 45 years now. Us, like Robin and I, have been married 45 years now and hopefully we've got another 20, 25 years ahead of us and we still have challenges today. But people that have context to our relationship can help me make good decisions.
Speaker 2:And then I start thinking about my spiritual walk Like I want people around me that have a similar lens that can say, hey, this is how we can help you make a decision in that, like, these five pillars are the most important things in your life.
Speaker 2:This is not like buying a car. This is like how you're showing up and living your life and are you gonna grow, are you gonna prosper, are you gonna scale, are you gonna have those lifelong personal relationships, are you gonna have that connection with people that really care. See, here's the problem is, a lot of people say I don't have time for that. Well, when you need that advice, it's too late to build it. Right, you got to invest it now, where you can get the solid advice. When you're ready to scale, when you're ready to sell that business, when you're ready to have that discussion with your children right, you can't build it when you need it. You got to build it before you need it. And so that's the reason we're looking for qualified guys that are willing to invest, to be in that arena.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, some additional criteria before we move into some questions that we need to ask ourselves, but it's got. Last piece of criteria is you know, there's men only, there's women only, there's co-ed groups, and there's men only, there's women only there's co-ed groups. And I think that they're all depending on which group you choose is depending on what you're trying to get out of that group, and everybody has personal conviction around this. I know there are some groups that are more business focused. The reality is, if they're co-ed, you're probably not going to dive into some of the relational and the personal challenges that you're having Right.
Speaker 1:That's not a bad thing. It just means that that particular group serves that purpose Right, so they're going to be more focused on one thing or the other, whereas if you do have a women-only or men-only environment group that you belong to and we're speaking to men today on this podcast that there's things that you cannot say, cannot bring up, that you cannot talk about, that are really in your heart and your mind, that you're dealing with in a mixed environment, you can't do it.
Speaker 2:You don't do it at church, which if you're going to do it anywhere is where you should do it.
Speaker 1:You're definitely not going to do it in a secular, a secular world, right? So I think that's really important for guys to think about that, depending on what you're looking for and the group you're looking for. As you kind of answer some of these next questions, where you land, like that should be part of your criteria. All right Questions that we should be asking ourselves. I think the first one is what stage of business am I in? There's guys that are listening today that have full-time jobs and they're like hey, I'm starting this gig on the side and so I'm kind of startup mode, right, starting this thing part-time. There's guys that just went all in as solopreneurs. And there's guys that have been in business a while that have a small team. That are some you know they're, they're scaling up their business, so they're growing and adding. And then there's guys that are kind of like, hey, you know, we've, we've, we've done well in our marketplace and we're growing there, but you know, I need something different now, and so all these groups tend to serve like C12. They have minimums, right? Isi has some requirements when you apply, right. Other types of groups that are out there, they should.
Speaker 1:If they don't, I'd be very leery If there's not some criteria. Uh, to get in, it means that they haven't figured out who they're trying to, who they're best able to serve and help. To get in, it means that they haven't figured out who they're best able to serve and help. And so, depending on what stage of business you're in, sometimes it could also be what stage of life you're in right, some of them span the gap right. Some of them are going to fit well for a 25-year-old and some of them are going to fit better for a 65-year-old. And so you have these variants of stages of business, stages of life, seasons of life, and I think it's important to think about those in light of how you're looking. What else do you think are the questions that I should be asking?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to comment on that particular one you said for a second. This also comes with training yourself to have a different mindset. We're really big on serving givers and not takers, and what I mean by that is you may be in a different stage of your life. We had one guy that joined years ago and, very successful, sold his company to his son and I said what is it? Mike's his name. I said Mike, what is it that you want out of ISI? He goes I don't want anything. I don't need anything. I'm here to give, like I'm here to encourage. I'm here. I'm like well, what do you need? He goes I don't need anything. I've made plenty of money. I got money for the rest of my life. My wife and I've been married 40 years. I want to give and I'm like can I hug you?
Speaker 1:Like if we were in person.
Speaker 2:I would hug you right now, See, because we can't always be the taker, mike's actually in co-pilots, by the way.
Speaker 1:Yes, he is, he is.
Speaker 2:He is Mike's in co-pilots and he's still in a long time and he does a remarkable job of calling me periodically and just say, hey, man, what can we do for you? He goes, no, what can I do for y'all? He's a good dude and I'm like, oh my gosh, like we need more mics in the world. But my point is is that you're going to be in some of these groups and periodically there may not be an immediate ROI, but there's a guy that joined ISI three years ago. I won't call his name, but he struggled for the first year that he was in and then the second year he started seeing the value. But this year he called me and he goes big A, can you meet with me? And I said, yeah, sure. He said one of the guys in the group owns this software business. And I said, yeah, I know him. I know him well, he's been in for 10 years. And he said, well, he conceptually gave me an idea, not even knowing. He gave me an idea, but I've taken that concept and applied it to my business and I've got an opportunity to turn this into a multimillion dollar business in a 12 month period of time. And he laid it out Wally, I'm embarrassed to tell you what I'm about to tell you.
Speaker 2:The first thing I said was how do I get involved in this? And he started laughing and he said well, I'm not needing investors right this minute, but maybe later. I was like and I said let me ask you a question. If you had to have been in the group, this is a self-serving question, I said, but would you have discovered this on your own? He goes in a million years. I wouldn't have thought of this without being in the mastermind group with this guy. So my point is is he put three years of the work in and one idea is fixing to revolutionize the way he does business, and it could make him extremely wealthy. But he was patient, he built the relationships, he did the work, he showed up and through those relationships he's able to start a business that appears to be very successful.
Speaker 1:So a question that I hear from what you're saying is guys that are listening today they ask themselves how committed am I, like, how far do I want to go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not a short term. Get in, suck the group what they're worth in 90 days or one year and get out. It's like no man take a long term approach to this and it could radically transform the way you do business. Here's the thing when you get in a group, these guys in the group are growing as well, and some of the things that they didn't even know at the time could be beneficial to you later. And so now they know your heart, they know you're a giver, they have context to your life. They can help you make real decisions. And so when you say, what stage of business am I in currently, don't be so short-sighted that you cheat yourself out of a great opportunity later. That's my only point around. When you say what stage of business is the man, I think the other thing is and some guys are in multiple groups, some guys are in niche. You know only verticals. They're like, hey, I need help with this space right now. Okay, well, we'll make a suggestion Go to this group like we did Derek Champagne earlier.
Speaker 1:Hang on, though. What you're asking is like should, if a guy? So we're talking about questions that guys can ask themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Should I be in multiple groups? That's the question. It's like, yeah, is one group enough? Well, I don't know, it depends on what your need is, like like I've joined other groups for specific things and I've been in groups that were whole man, like we're talking about now. It's like I don't know. I mean, it depends on what your needs are. You may need one-on-one coaching. You may need to be in multiple groups. What is it that you're trying to accomplish?
Speaker 1:We've got guys in ISI that are also in C12 and Vista. Sure, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And they love it, and it serves two different needs at this time in their life, and so I don't think that's a question that you can answer forever. I think there's specific in nature to where you're at currently. What are your needs? Here's the other thing. This is not an expense, it's an investment, and you've got to look at it as an investment. It's like this is a tool to help you accomplish this thing. What is that thing that you need?
Speaker 1:We have a lot of guys in multiple groups. Yeah, that's good. Another question I think we ought to ask ourselves is sometimes, you know, a lot of guys are loyal and loyalty is good, and yet there's seasons of life, stages of life, things change. I tend to like probably stick to the same thing in general too long in my life. I tend I don't pivot quick enough. I lose some opportunities on that. But like, even with groups like this right, like do I have to be? That's that question. Like do I? If I say yes, am I committing my life to it? Is it like a? You know, you mentioned earlier about 90 days in and out.
Speaker 1:And is it? Is it as a couple of years? Like we talked about commitment. Like how do I, how do I balance that? Like how do I think about that when I go to get in? Because some guys are like, hey, if I'm going to make a commitment to this, is this going to be a forever thing? Is there a thing that I should? Should I off? Should I reevaluate it every 12 months or every couple?
Speaker 2:of months. That's where I'm going to get to, that's where I think the answer is, and we may even adopt some of these principles for our own industry going forward. But I was in the group that I told you about for 12 years and annually the Eagles.
Speaker 2:It was annually. Some people know this story, some people don't, but I'm going to say something, and not for name dropping sake, but to show you the value long-term. Dave Ramsey is the one that invited me to join his group with Dan Miller, ron Doyle, ken Abraham, jeff Mosley. Some of those guys y'all may or may not know my point in telling the story is a lot of people say, oh yeah, who wouldn't want to be in that group? My point is is they weren't then who they are now. That's right, they weren't and they were starting out.
Speaker 2:We built our businesses right together and it's like so when you say how, how long am I committed for? I don't know. I don't think there's an answer for that. I think you got to evaluate it ongoing because for me personally, building those deep relationships even today, I just got together with Ken Abraham, went to his house he's got a new book launch that he just launched a new book called no Address and they shot a movie and while I was at his house he introduced me to some of the top movers and shakers in Nashville and people in the movie industry. And it was all because we've got a 25-year relationship and we were in a group together for 12 years. It keeps giving. It keeps on giving the value, and if you get in and out of these groups in a year or two, you don't get the opportunity to build those lifelong relationships that could open doors for you. Even at 64 years old, I'm still having doors opened.
Speaker 2:I got an invitation to speak on a public platform that night from the guy that makes the decision, because I met him through that relationship and you're like, well, big A, I'm not you and I wasn't in that group. But I said earlier, they weren't then who they are now, and so your group could be the next Eagles, whatever group you're in. And so don't try to make a decision. I'm only going to get in for 12 months and get out. Well, you may be really cutting your nose off to spot your face. There may be an opportunity a year or two from now that comes up that changes the trajectory of your life. Yeah, and so I would just say annually reevaluate, am I in? Make a commitment, let's get back in. Let annually reevaluate am I in? Make a commitment, let's get back in.
Speaker 1:let's do it again and then just look at it annually. Yeah, my observation is, if you're thinking about it monthly, usually it's economically driven.
Speaker 2:So maybe you should have done it in the first place.
Speaker 1:Exactly If you can't afford it. You know you got to be a good steward, right. If you can't afford to get in something, you need to find something different. Until you can.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you've got to be in. And if every month you're like, oh, I got to pay this this month or this is you know, it's like you're not showing up with a full cup, you're not, you're not showing up ready to give, to dive in, to listen, all you can think about is like, oh, it's going to be on that expense sheet again. And man, if you're in that place like that's not the best time because you're not going to be able to learn and get and receive, you're not going to be able to give effectively either. So I think that's part of the timing when you think about you know when you're going to be in these groups.
Speaker 2:I'll say one quick thing about that. Your attitude shouldn't be am I going to have to pay this again next month? Your attitude should be hey guys, I'm paying. Y'all need to help me figure out how to make more money. There you go. I love it If you use that mindset. Rather than being upset over whatever hundreds of dollars it is to join, get in there and generate more income. You can't save yourself into prosperity. We've got to generate more revenue. And how can I do that?
Speaker 2:Some of the other reasons and excuses that guys struggle to join peer groups, and I hear these all the time. It takes too much time. I'm like are you serious? What are you saying? It takes too much time? You'd rather be over there doing a task rather than building a relationship that could open up a pipeline partnership for you that is going to give you 100x return on your time. And you're saying it's I'm too busy. Listen, I don't know about you.
Speaker 2:Dave Ramsey, last I looked, was pretty busy. He never missed, he was always on time and he stayed the entire time for a dozen years. I think he's done pretty well, right? And so Ken Abraham, the most noted ghost author on the planet, and he made time but you're saying I'm too busy. It's like, really, jeff Mosley, one of the top record labels in Christian music. He spent a dozen years and you're like you're too busy. Please do not use that excuse. If you're going forward, don't tell me that you're too busy not to be in a peer advisory group. I don't know if it's Carnegie or Carnegie. I don't know how to pronounce his name. I was told his. But listen, the guy was worth, in today's dollars, $300 billion and he attributes his wealth to his mastermind group. It's like don't tell me you're too busy.
Speaker 2:The other thing is it costs too much. A lot of people say that it's like, well, that's relative, like I don't know if it costs too much or not, but if you're getting a 10, x or a hundred X return or somebody gives you an opportunity, like this member in our group right now, that he's going to have a multimillion dollar business and he pays what? Six, 50 a month to be in a group, and it's like, okay, I don't think that's too much. It's like what are you doing? What is your marriage worth? What is your relationship to your children worth? You're like oh, I'm never at ball practice, I'm never at piano recital and I don't get home. They're in bed and I really you're going to grow up and you're going to miss your children and you tell me that it costs too much to get accountability, to learn how to scale your business in a manageable way. There's great value in those relationships, in that opportunity with your children and to scale your business faster, so I don't think that we can use that excuse.
Speaker 1:I like the idea. You know we say it costs too much, we don't have a problem, you know, investing in a tool for our business that's going to help us increase X or do X or make us more efficient or do this or do that the right kind of software to create some automation to do certain things Right. And unfortunately, we don't often put information experience in the same bucket. And, man, I tell you what, like you said earlier in the very beginning, and it's so true, if I could have learned perspective and gained perspective in these, in these groups that I've been in and being an ISI now I dare I was probably. I don't know if it's true or not, but I feel like for myself, the most value I get is not actually what someone says directly to me.
Speaker 2:No, it's what they say to somebody else, right, right.
Speaker 1:If you're not a fly on the wall, if you're not part of that conversation in the, if you're not in there, you don't hear it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And so you're, you're navigating, all of these things you don't even know is even possible, or there it's. It's insane. Yeah, I don't know how to. I don't want to use the. You know it's priceless, but I don't know how to put a price. In my experience, I hear so many guys talk about.
Speaker 2:Oh right, deal flow I'm making. I don't mind saying I'm not going to say what it is, but I make $150,000 a year off of two guys that I met five years ago in ISI that I wouldn't have had that opportunity had I not been in. Yeah, true, I would not have been making that today, and I make that recurring every single year as a result of that relationship. Just a couple other quick things. People say I can start my own. Well, you can.
Speaker 2:I started my own, I did this and you can too. It just takes time. We're 11 years in. I mean it's a lot of work, though Let me just tell you, if you think I'm going to hang a shingle out and get a bunch of people, that is not the way it works. We have a team now of about 10 people. We spend every day, all day long, building the things that we've done, and I've done thousands of podcast interviews to get people in, and I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in marketing and promoting. If you want to do those things, you can start your own, and you can grow your own or one group.
Speaker 1:Just to say one group. You can do one group and not do all that. Including our facilitators, we have a team of 19 people. And then also you know it's interesting the next forge episode that's coming up yeah, is actually I'm sure you listen to that. It's actually about a guy that has worked at starting his own mastermind type stuff, and we're not going to be talking specifically about that, but just the fact that the amount of effort and time and the challenges that he's had he just wants to serve people, love people and yet he's finding it's a challenge. So, starting anything if it's not your thing. You said something a while ago I thought was really good, and there are organizations, obviously. We talked about a bunch of them and they're going to be in that list that you download at the end here. There are plenty of organizations that focus on this thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, if you're doing something else, trying to focus on this thing, you may get lucky. You may, but from what I've seen, chances are you're going to spend a lot of time spinning wheels. I've seen chances are you're going to spend a lot of time spinning wheels going through people. It's, it's going to be, it's going to be a side business. Just treat it like that If you do start your own. I also hear, too, kind of the last excuse from guys who struggle is that you know I don't, I don't really want to be genuine or transparent, or you know, being accountable I mean you kind of use that with Robin, your example. In the beginning you said that like I don't want to, I don't want to do that I can excuse. Really, it's a limiting belief at the end of the day, right, you think that people think you're more important than you are, or they think more important of you than you are. People don't care, they don't, they don't care, they don't, they don't care, they're not. I don't know how else to say that.
Speaker 2:They just don't.
Speaker 1:I fall into that trap. But yet you get into these groups where you're in alignment and like they, like they're almost I don't want to say non-biased, but unbiased right, they have a definitely like. They can give you the advice and the encouragement and the challenge and insight emotional and insight Emotional yeah, there's not the emotional attachment there that you may get from other places. So all right, Bring us home.
Speaker 2:We got to close this out.
Speaker 1:This is no longer, but there's been a lot of good stuff here for guys we could talk for hours and hours about being in these Mastermind groups, whether it's our group, another group.
Speaker 2:God designed us to be in community, without a question. You can go so much further if you're in a group than you could alone, because I always say that isolation is the enemy of excellence. And if you want to do well, you want to grow, you want to scale, you want to really level up in your relationships, you want to have that great relationship with your spouse, with your kids, you want to be happy within yourself and you want to have guardrails and boundaries and accountability. You can't do that stuff alone. It just doesn't happen. I tried it for 20 years in business and it does not work as well as it does when you're in community.
Speaker 2:So just explore this. Just ask yourself these questions like why is it important to get connected with a group that you can commit to? Don't get in a group you're not willing to commit to, though. Right, don't do that, don't waste their time, don't waste our time, don't waste your time. You're like, hey, big A, I'm excited, I'm determined, I want to get in these groups, I want to understand, I want to take my life to the next level.
Speaker 2:But here's the thing you've got to ask yourself what if you don't take action? What's going to change in your life? Are you going to just stay right where you're at right now? Are you happy where you're at right now, you say, well, I'm pretty good.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe a mastermind group's not for you. But if you're like, no, I love what you're saying. I want to level up, I want to grow, I want to be committed, I want to give, I want to serve, I want to be at home, I want to be present with my kids, I want my relationships to be amazing. You've got to get around some other people. So I just want to encourage you today that, if you're going to do this, make the long-haul commitment, Say I'm going to make the investment and I'm going to level up and I'm going to listen to Wally and Big A and I'm going to go for it and I'm going to live life like it's supposed to be lived. And the reason that we want you to do this is so that you too can have that view from the top.
Speaker 1:Hey, as promised at the end of this episode, we wanted to give you some of the homework we've done and allow you to leverage that. We put together an exhaustive list of masterminds. Peer advisory groups, along with the top, must answer seven questions to help you narrow down your choice. So you can get that by going to isibrotherhoodcom slash which one? That's isibrotherhoodcom. Slash which one all one word, and we'll also put the link in the show notes. Whichone all one word, and we'll also put the link in the show notes. And you can also get it just in the resources section at isibrotherhoodcom. Well, just want to say thank you for joining us this week. This week's episode is brought to you by Iron Serpents Iron as a brotherhood designed specifically for Christian business leaders, owners and entrepreneurs. Where faith and business intersect, wisdom is shared, relationships flourish, true success and real significance is achieved. You can learn more about that at isibrotherhoodcom where you can get connected. So thanks again for listening today. We will see you next week.