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ISI Brotherhood Podcast
A podcast for growth-minded Christian businessmen who desire momentum and accountability in their business, family, finances, faith, and personal wellness. Each week, Aaron Walker, also known as Big A, shares authentically from decades of business ownership, marriage, and raising a family. He takes on listener questions and deep-dive into FORGE episodes with tried and tested co-hosts. Subscribe and visit our website https://www.isibrotherhood.com/podcast
ISI Brotherhood Podcast
109. Are You About to Have an Affair?
“We’re all just one bad decision away from ruining our lives.” What has led you down this path, and where do you go from here? As entrepreneurs and business owners, there is a level of disconnection that we have with our wives because oftentimes they don't get our business or what we're going through. They don't understand us... et cetera, et cetera, right? The lies and excuses get us to a point of no return.
If you're about to have an affair or are in the thick of one now, this episode will help you discover what pitfalls to watch out for and how to move forward. We discuss everything from emotional intimacy to sexual frustrations and how if we're not proactive, we will make a bad decision that was never intended in the first place.
Key Takeaways:
- Good intentions, safeguards, and bad decisions
- 3 core problems and how to prevent them
- If you're deep in pornography
- How to protect the sanctity of your marriage
Marriage is a journey filled with love, endless learning, and even temptations. We share candid stories of what happened in our own marriages to push us to record an episode like this. Whether it’s about learning to express personal needs or the subtle ways temptation sneaks in, we aim to reassure and guide you through the complexities of sustaining a strong marriage.
Iron Sharpens Iron Community: https://isibrotherhood.com/community
If you want to hear more speakers like this every month and be with the guys on the call, join the Iron Sharpens Iron Community today: https://www.isibrotherhood.com/isi-community
Connect with Big A:
View From The Top Website: https://isibrotherhood.com
The ISI Newsletter: https://www.isibrotherhood.com/newsletter
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Hey guys, welcome back to View From the Top podcast, where we help growth-minded men who desire momentum in their business, their family and their finances get through the valleys and up the mountains to their very own view from the top. Hey, today's episode is brought to you by the ISI Brotherhood and they put a question out there for you listeners, and the question is do you have real friends? Is there anyone in your life right now that if your whole world fell apart at 2 am, that you could call and you know that they would pick up? You know, since we're talking about real raw issues today, I only thought it made sense to kind of make you think about who your real friends are.
Speaker 1:We need friendships that we can trust, support us and our wives, because if I were to make a huge mistake or an outside situation put us in a really scary situation and everything around us crumbled, I would want those relationships and those types of friendships have a huge impact on my marriage, my children, my business, my finances and even my spiritual journey. For sure I need other men to trust, a tribe to belong to, and for that personally I've chosen Iron Sharpens, iron Brotherhood, and if you want to be connected and engaged with a growing group of growth-minded Christian businessmen and leaders who are also making informed, vetted decisions through a biblical lens. Go check out the brotherhood for yourself at isibrotherhoodcom. All right, without further ado, let's get the man with the 5 am hot tub epiphanies in the studio.
Speaker 2:Welcome, big A Come on Wally, you doing good yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you have any hot tub epiphanies this morning?
Speaker 2:Not this morning. No epiphanies, no.
Speaker 1:Not this morning, no epiphanies.
Speaker 2:No, it's a good thing, though. Our team is excited oftentimes when I get in there and have good ideas, and other times they're like, hey, would you stay out of the hot tub this week? We don't need any more ideas. Yeah, I was just thinking a little bit about your opening and what you were talking about as it relates to the brotherhood. This is not a sales pitch, but it's just personal testimony.
Speaker 2:20 years of my career initially was in isolation. I didn't have anybody that I trusted, because I didn't want guys to know that I didn't have it all figured out. And I just want to be honest with you. 25 years ago, when I was invited to be into a community, I was afraid, but it's radically changed my life and what little bit of success I have had has come as a direct result of that interaction. And so I just want you guys out there thinking today about community. Do you have those 5 am or 2 am friends, I think you said. But it's not just the 2 am friends. You have the friends every day to help you make life decisions personally and professionally, and I just want to encourage you really to go check out Iron Sharpens, iron Brotherhood. It's an amazing community and we're helping guys transform to levels they've never been. So, yeah, just really dawned on me how grateful I am for all these men and the decisions they help me make each and every day. It's a good word.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listen, it's no secret that we record these a few days ahead of time. Today's a big day in our country Election Day. Here we are, november 5th recording and a lot of big opportunities up in the air, so by the time you listen to this, it will have already happened. We're going to come back later and talk about the election. There's some things that we would like to discuss around that, so just be looking forward to future episodes related to that. But I'm excited, I'm pretty. It's like Christmas today. It's like, oh my gosh, what's going to happen by the end of the day?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't think of election day as Christmas, but I mean just the excitement. There's a lot of excitement. The anticipation is not quite the same.
Speaker 2:For me it's not, I agree, but there is a sense of electricity in the air. It's like, oh my gosh, here we are Been going on for months and months and today's the date. So we're having a watch party at my house tonight. So it's got some of the kids coming over. My mom and I think we're going to eat some good food and watch the election return. So yeah, it's going to be fun. Fall time of the year is here. Wally, this is your kind of the time of the year, right? You like it when it's kind of cool, like this.
Speaker 1:I do like the fall weather. It's been joyful for sure. Still, I was back in New York. Cassandra and I took a trip back to see my dad and hang out with my family for a bit. My mom passed away back in January, so it's almost been a year, and their birth, her birthday, would have been in October and their anniversary was, and would have been, in October as well, and Sonia hadn't been back yet. So we took a quick trip back there and, man, it was great to be with family, but also great to be in the cooler weather. I think it was like 32, 36 in the mornings. Nice brisk walks, sun shining through the trees. The full color is gorgeous. It was great. Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 2:As long as it doesn't get any cooler than this, I'd be happy it's in the 60s here right now in Nashville, and that would suit me fine. That's not going to happen, but it is what it is. Listen, let's dive in. We're going to talk about a pretty heavy topic today. I know you guys have seen the title Are you About to have an Affair? This is not fun to talk about, honestly. I'd rather be talking about leadership or encouragement or ways to scale your business and things like that.
Speaker 2:But the reality is it's a real problem in today's society, and if you're a small business owner and you find yourself with a significant amount of freedom and what I call a minimal amount of accountability, I just think this can lead to dangerous paths if it's unchecked, and so that's what we want to talk about today.
Speaker 2:There's this real allure of emotional connection that you have with other people oftentimes, and a disconnection with your current spouse.
Speaker 2:There's guys out there today that are experiencing sexual dissatisfaction, and oftentimes an unchecked freedom, in my opinion, becomes the perfect storm for many men to have an affair.
Speaker 2:It creates these cracks in your marriage that allows these type of opportunities to kind of trickle in and what begins kind of as a subtle, flirtatious kind of action or maybe some frustration that you're having or some unmet need. I think that can grow into a temptation that you may seem impossible to resist. And so we just thought we'd talk about that today a little bit and what we're seeing in the community, and we have found that when you have intentional safeguards and accountability around you, these pressures of running a business and managing your personal life also push you to be the man maybe you don't want to be, and I think that if you do have these safeguards and that level of accountability, I think it can help you dramatically. And Wally and I decided today in this episode that we're going to kind of explore some of the core problems and how to prevent them from destroying your marriage, and so I'm glad you tuned in with us today.
Speaker 1:Hey, big A, as we get started here, I wonder how. You know we've always said we're going to be transparent on here. So one of my questions, I guess, as we start off, is kind of full disclosure, what I don't want to. Kind of a weird question to ask him maybe, like what experience have you've had, you know, with, uh, what's the topic we're talking about today? Um, you know I can, I'll speak for myself first, because I think it's important. Uh, you know guys out there listening and going. Oh yeah, those guys are sitting in some ivory tower and they've got, you know, they've not had any issues or they've not been tempted or they've never fallen, and that's just so far from the truth.
Speaker 1:You know, it was a lot of years ago for me been married, 32 years here, coming up in May of 2025. So almost 32. And it was our first, between our first and second year of marriage, that I had an affair on my wife, on Sonia, and I left for about three or four months and, by the grace of God, you know, there were people in my life that reached out, reached in, and Sonia was gracious enough to forgive and take me back, and that was a wild. Reached in and, um, sonia was gracious enough to uh, forgive and take me back, and that was a wild. You know, probably 12 to 18 years after that and I'm going to lie, uh, for multiple reasons, not just because of that, but some other things that had happened to her when she was younger, and so all of that boiled into, uh, you know, quite a journey for us.
Speaker 1:And so, uh, yeah, I'm not coming today to say I've got it all figured out. I don't, uh, but I'm coming today with saying, hey, I've got a little bit of experience, unfortunately, with this, and, you know, we learn from so many guys too. We hear from so many guys uh about temptation, about boundaries, about when we fail, about when we find success. So I just want the guys listening today.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that you know. We're not sitting in some ivory tower over here. We're not.
Speaker 2:Well, we never try to pretend to be that person that's got it all figured out. We're here to learn together, right? We have had some journeys. You and I, collectively, have had almost 80 years of marriage experience. Collectively, I'm soon to celebrate 45 years Awesome.
Speaker 2:I also have been tempted in this regard. It wasn't a full-blown affair, but I was headed down that path and this was decades ago when I was a young businessman. I had a level of success early on, and then you start believing your own press clippings like you're successful and you're smart and you can accomplish things. And so you start believing in yourself to a regard that you don't have accountability. You're like nobody gonna tell me anything. I'm my own man, I made my own way, I've made my own money, I make my own decisions. And you catch yourself in compromising situations to where you may say something that you wouldn't have said if your spouse is there, or you do something that's kind of on the edge, but it's not like full-blown deal and you're not. You know, I never got where I was sleeping with anybody and doing all that kind of stuff. I wasn't doing all that, but I was headed down a path that, if it hadn't been revealed, it could have ended my marriage and, quite honestly, it had a good opportunity to end my marriage the way it was, just simply because I was headed down a bad path and it was, you know, my own choosing. The thing is is I never went into any relationship with that the intention. And I look back now and I think you couldn't hold a gun on me and make me say or do some of those things that I did then. Right, it's like that's an out-of-body experience. I mean, it literally came out of left field. I never saw it coming, it was like a left hook.
Speaker 2:There's a friend of ours we have a mutual friend, and I'll reserve his name just to protect him because I don't have permission to share his name. But he was sharing at his church where there was an opportunity. He was going to pray with a young lady that was at his church and it's customary in their church to hold hands with each other and pray and he was probably 30 years, her senior, but she was a beautiful young lady that led their worship team at their church and he took her hands and when he looked at her he said something happened. He said I can't even explain it, I don't even know really what happened, but there was this emotional connection. Immediately he said he heard the door open and he looked and it was his wife and he said, there he stood holding her hands and he called for her and he said, hey, won't you come down and we're going to pray for this young lady and it was customary in their church to hold hands. So they did Well. He got home and it bothered him so bad that he confessed it to his wife. He said this wasn't intentional but it happened.
Speaker 2:And I think that's the way a lot of times, that the enemy tries to persuade us into a situation that it's not intentional but it happened, and then we take it from there and run with it. And that's some of the things that we want to talk about today. And I even found myself in that situation. It's like, hey, this is not that bad and you try to rationalize it. This is really not going all the way and this is really not a full-blown deal, but you catch yourself saying things and doing things and positioning yourself to be around people that you really have no business being in.
Speaker 2:Thank goodness that was exposed and you know, I was able to go through restoration and work through it and Robin forgave me and we talked through it, but even at that it took years, right? See, that's the difficult part is that the damage, the collateral damage that you do is unbelievable. And then, when it's a full-blown affair, you know, then we got a lot more obstacles to go through and a lot more trust to build back. Which really takes me kind of to the first point of our discussion today, and that's the lack of emotional intimacy. The lack of emotional intimacy, the lack of emotional intimacy. So, wally, you speak on that just for a second. Like, has that been a challenge for you and Sonia to have emotional intimacy on an ongoing basis? Like what, what does?
Speaker 1:that do to you and for your marriage. Yeah, well, for sure, it was something that we struggled with, you know, earlier in our marriage, whether it be because of the affair or just because of being young, immature, growing up, you know. Now it's a whole different, totally different ballgame, right, because we pay attention more and we'll talk more about some of the things that we do later on that we've learned over time. One of the things that stands out the most to me, though, if I, as I look back and I was at a, as I, mastermind retreat here a week or so ago and sitting with, you know, a bunch of guys for a weekend, really diving in, digging in, and one of the things we talked about when we were there was this topic a little bit, and something that that kept coming up with the guys was man, like when do you feel most disconnected from your wife? Like when is that time in your life when you feel most disconnected? And one of the common themes.
Speaker 1:There was other things, but one of the common themes was I'm trying to run a business, I've got all these challenges that maybe she doesn't quite understand or don't know how to communicate those, or she just doesn't want to hear it. I feel I don't feel respected. Because of it, and because I don't feel respected, then I look at her differently than I should be, and when I look at my wife differently than I should be, I start to distance myself emotionally, let alone physically. And then, as soon as I do that, then the enemy has those open doors like you were talking about earlier, about all the little things right, like we want that. Doors like you were talking about earlier, about all the little things, right, like we want that, uh, we don't want it, but we kind of do.
Speaker 1:We can want it is that you're out doing something and you know whether the gym or you're at the grocery store or getting gas, it doesn't matter. So they're getting gas and some, some other, some lady pulls up next to you in the car and gets out and you're just wondering if she finds you attractive. You think she would care about what I'm going through and what I'm doing. It's so stupid, it's so silly, but the enemy can play those games on our mind, right, it's just, it's, it's insane, and so that's a. That's a common thread that I have found in my life and listening to other guys is when we don't feel like our wife understands we're not communicating well and we feel disrespected because of what I'm trying to accomplish with the business, and she's just not on the same page with me.
Speaker 2:Wally. What's been difficult for Robin and I not Robin for me is that we've been self-employed now 46 years and so by the time I get home and Robin asks me how our day goes, robin wants to know all the intimate details. That's her love language, right? Is that intimate connection? I'm so exhausted that I don't want to talk about it. Like I don't want to take the energy to relive that again, because as soon as I share one thing, it's going to open the door for another question and another question and another question. This is wrong. I'm not saying what I'm doing is right. Like I need to learn, I need to grow from this. So don't you guys listening today hear me wrong, but it's a challenge for me. But here's what I found out is the physical intimacy comes on the other side of the emotional intimacy, and when there is no emotional intimacy, robin's not interested in physical intimacy and it's like she's like I want to spend time, I want to hear how your day, I want to know what you're thinking, I want to know how you're handling it, I want to know how you're processing it. So maybe there's other guys that can identify with me out there right now. It's like man, I get you big A. I understand, I don't want to go through that either. So I think you've got to have that discussion and Robin and I've had this discussion.
Speaker 2:Robin's a very detailed person and me not so much, like my usual patent answer is oh, it's good, it's my normal stuff. Well, yesterday I had a pretty tough day yesterday, quite honestly, and when I came in I kissed her, like I always do, and she's telling me about her day and she looks at me. She goes what's wrong? I said no, nothing, it's all good. She's telling me about her day and she looks at me. She goes what's wrong? I said no, nothing, it's all good. And so I go in and take a shower, like I normally do, right as soon as I get home and I get some comfortable clothes on and I'm sitting there and she comes over. She goes what's going on? I start laughing. I always start laughing because I think I'm in trouble. You know she goes no, really, what is it? And so we really had an hour conversation after that.
Speaker 2:No TV on, of course, we're empty nesters, so it's just her and I, but it really led to a nice discussion because I took the time, and so that's what she needed right and, quite honestly, I need it as well. It's just, selfishly, I don't want to take the time. So, guys, don't follow me. In regards to the emotional connection, take the time. I think it could be beneficial to you.
Speaker 2:You know, the other thing that I find is and we didn't do a good job with this we're really teaching out of our deficit, you know, oftentimes, and it's the failure to communicate needs, and I didn't want to do this either early on in our marriage. It's like you ought to know, you should know what my needs are. Well, they don't necessarily know. Yeah, that sounds really selfish. No, it does, doesn't it? It's like that's crazy.
Speaker 2:But be able to sit down and be able to say, when you say this, this is what I feel, or when I do this like this, would feel like communicate what you're needing, like like mine, like for Robin, mine is words of affirmation, and I don't know what that, where that came from, but it's like I want her to acknowledge. You know, hey, thank you for working hard, or thank you for helping me at the house, or you did a good job on this, or I'm proud of you, the way you communicate with those guys and you're teaching them. She couldn't buy me a present and make me happier than the words of affirmation. Right, hers is quality time. Right, she just wants to sit there and hang out, and so we we've got to determine those needs. So what about you and Sonia? How do y'all communicate needs?
Speaker 1:That's kind of what I was talking about earlier is that it's been a journey to be able to figure that out. You know, early on I didn't trust that when I brought stuff up about work or communicated about work or had to put some extra hours in work, that her response was going to be favorable. And so it created and part of that was me and part of it was her. If I'm honest about it, I'm pretty sure she'd probably sit here and say the same thing. It took both of us truthfully to work through that, but it took time. But as one of the things that made a big difference, uh, that I didn't have earlier on, that I had when things started to change for me, you know, 10, 12 years ago, was that I had a place like I couldn't. I didn't feel like I could in, like men's Bible studies at church was in them. In like men's Bible studies at church was in them, did not feel like I had space to talk about this topic right here, just didn't feel like we really talked about it too much back then. And also being a business owner, an entrepreneur, it was just different. It was just a different like how we approach things, how we thought about things and so it was just different. It was just a different like how we approach things, how we thought about things, and so it was a struggle. So but as I got connected to other guys that I was a little more aligned with life. On, the Bible studies were still great, for Bible studies with guys in my church, that was amazing, good brothers in Christ.
Speaker 1:But when it came to like blending and mixing these things that are going on in our lives, it really took having a you know, one, two, three, four, five, six guys in my life that I could for lack of a better word kind of vent this stuff out to. And I don't want to say not be judged but not be condemned. You know, I think it's hard to talk about topics, this kind of thing, with other people, whether they judge us or not, but they condemn us. A lot of times they just shut the conversation down. Oh, you shouldn't do that, shouldn't be that way.
Speaker 1:Well, they're right, but they're real feelings and you got to work through them and you need help to work through them, and so when I started getting some of that help, being able to vent a little and guys coming around and not being, ah, shut up, just fix it. It's like well, I hear you, because I kind of feel the same way sometimes. This has happened, this is what's worked for us, this is what hasn't worked for us. You know, we're leaning into this and you're able to have a guy ahead of got a little bit of Hanja that you can kind of help encourage and pull along. Um, so really having that environment helped a lot, really kind of turned the tide for me.
Speaker 2:Uh, because we can't change our wives, our wives can't change us, like we just can't change each other, it's not you gotta want to yeah, we're not designed and God has not called us to do that Um you know, what's funny is we fall in love with that person and we date them for a couple of years and then we get married and we spend our time trying to change them.
Speaker 1:And that I did early on yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you and I are very different in a lot of areas. We're very similar in some. One is you're much more structured. You're very systems and process oriented. Sure, this next topic that I want to mention. I'm curious to how y'all handle it prioritizing regular communication.
Speaker 2:Robin and I are not that way in our relationship at all. Robin hates it, as a matter of fact, she just doesn't want systematized like okay, it's Friday night, seven o'clock, we got to go on a date night and at 8.30, we're going to sit down and have our communication. You know, that's not robin, that's just not. She wants to talk about it as we go right, if there's nothing, then there's nothing, then we're good. And then next week, if there's an issue, she'll come and get me and robin and I refuse to argue like holler and yell and stomp out and be mad and cuss and slam doors and leave and like.
Speaker 2:Our form of arguing is like you and I are talking right now. This is the way we argue Exactly 99% of the time. Okay, so you're still human. There's been, there's been some isolated incidents where you know our voices would raise. Or I'm sitting here trying to think that, if I could remember, I never, ever remember either of us leaving like ever in our whole marriage, like get in the car and drive off and not come back for a day or leave half. That I don't ever remember that. I do remember a couple of times, uh, our voices like getting to a place you would say that's probably yelling and I'm not going to tell what it is. But I do remember one time in our marriage Robin cussed at me one time in our whole marriage and I was like if you knew my wife you would understand that happened.
Speaker 1:You knew what was up. Something was up, man, like all I knew to do was to listen.
Speaker 2:That's right. I was scared to death.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh my God, in her defense, right, that was her way of getting your attention, cause that's she. Oh, she had it, and she had good reason.
Speaker 2:She had good reason to have my attention. But what I'm saying is is like we don't structure regular communication. Robin's like, if we need to talk, we'll talk. So that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. A lot of guys have Thursday night or date nights. They talk about things. That's great, that's not bad. All I'm saying is there's more than one way to do it. Sure, a lot of guys are like me and a lot of guys are more like you and the way you do, but I don't have.
Speaker 1:So I've never had like super structured time to communicate. No, we to communicate.
Speaker 2:We're similar in this regard. Yeah, but when we were younger and had kids at home it required a little more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it did. It required more frankly, Like one of the things we did learn, probably when they were. The girls were, I don't know, between nine and 13, 14, somewhere in there.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:We had done this video series at church Shepherding Child's Heart, maybe I can't remember exactly what it was, but there's a couple of. You know you listen to this stuff, right, this teaching, just like people guys listening to this podcast. Today you're going to take away one or two things from this and hopefully right. And one of the things we took away from that was that when I came home from work, or I came in the did my two minute commute, or whatever it was, from the back of the garage right inside, and the girls were home. We we didn't do it every day, but but we tried our best and we did a pretty good job at it. I was saying, okay, mom and dad are going to get 15 minutes of time in the living room and the girls, you got to go do something else. Like you can't be in the kitchen can't go to the living.
Speaker 1:I was going to go to your room 15 minutes, go outside whatever 15 minutes, and that that helped a ton just to have 15 minutes of, you know, interrupted time just mom and dad. And sometimes that didn't work right after. Sometimes it was right after dinner Right, but but having that times a little bit of structure, uh, sonia knew she could count on that Right, in spite of our crazy schedules. And you know, then, as the kids got older and we we drove to you know volleyball games and soccer games and stuff like that, you have more time in the car.
Speaker 2:Well, the point is, just have a time that you can do it right. Don't avoid it right, whether it's on the couch, whether it's on the way to soccer. Some guys have intentional date nights. They have check-ins. I know guys in our circle that like. I mean, it's regimented, it's right.
Speaker 1:And it works for them, and it works for them, that's good, whatever.
Speaker 2:You know, there was a Bible verse I thought about that I think is applicable here. It's in Ephesians. It's 525. It says Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church up for her. And I think if we'll continue to quote that to ourselves and memorize that, it'll even help more with these levels of communication.
Speaker 2:Listen, I want to dive into something I know that most of you are wanting to talk about and hear about more than anything, and that's the sexual frustrations or dissatisfactions that we have in our marriage. It's a real thing. We tease about it, we cut up about it, guys joke about it. You know it's like it's. It's a topic of conversation in all of our masterminds. It's been a topic of conversations in accountability groups and small groups is wherever you go. This is a hot topic, right it's. It's like it's a real need, it's a real desire. God created us to be, you know, involved sexually with our partner. But there is frustrations, there are dissatisfactions, there are unmet sexual needs that we have. There's, you know, different things that we are confronted with All married couples, and I'll just challenge anybody if you've never had this challenge, like somebody's not telling the truth, right. If you've never had this challenge like somebody's not telling the truth right. There's always some level of communication around this topic, and so it's been a big source of contention at times in our marriage, and other times it's really good, and so I think the best way to resolve this up front is be willing to have a discussion right, and some people won't talk about it. They're scared to ask or they're scared to say, or they don't want to admit that there was an unmet need or something.
Speaker 2:We all are different. God's designed us all differently and there's certain things that we enjoy. We don't enjoy, certain things we want to talk about and not. But I think to have a healthy marriage, it's got to be. You know what's funny, wally, is I talk to young guys and they're like they're scared to talk about this with their spouse. They're like, man, I don't know she's going to get upset, she's going to get mad, and I don't know how to approach that.
Speaker 2:So there's levels of maturity in your marriage that I think you have to get to in order to have a more frank, candid conversation, and I get that. So I'm not saying that all you guys go out there today he's been married two or three years and have the level of conversation Wally and I are talking about, or even the levels of discussion that Wally and I are having now. With a mature marriage, you know you get marriages over 30 years, over 40 years. There's probably not much you can't talk about, right, and so I think you just have to kind of think through that. But yeah, let's dive into that, wally. Is it? Uh, is it a big topic, a minimal topic for y'all? Is it something that you've struggled with or you need tips that you can offer guys to kind of help work through this?
Speaker 1:I was, uh, had a conversation with a guy not in any of my circles, it was actually a guy at church in a Bible study environment and his this makes me sad. He is having a constant affair through pornography, is having a constant affair through pornography and it's created. You can imagine the chasm that it's created in his relationship, the gap between he and his wife. She's aware of the challenge that he has with it and so he withholds. She withholds because of that sin in his life. And you can imagine, right, I mean I would too, and so, and then he uses it as an excuse.
Speaker 1:And I think that's where guys like, whether it's pornography, whether it's, you know, someone at work, whether it's someone in our social environments that we find ourselves in, and I dare say I mean this happens at a church, it can happen, we're all human and so having that disconnection sexually and the frustration that comes with that, uh, sexually, and the frustration that comes with that, as men, we need to really make sure that we've got our a game on that.
Speaker 1:We are following Christ's example, that we are being obedient to his word, um, and that means everything from you know, no matter what we put our eyes on, um, whether it's, you know, digitally, paper, in person, in person, we need to protect the sanctity of our marriage and our relationship we have with our wives, and so I want to just encourage kind of our topic today was are you about to have an affair? And my experience and my observation is that this specific thing right here is probably one of the most common excuses that guys can use that the enemy can get a foothold with to be able to drive that wedge and move you toward a thought process and eventually, if not brought under the control of the Holy Spirit, that you're gonna make a decision, one right after another You're just gonna regret. You talked about that earlier on, and so I just wanted to speak to guys about that. First, that we have a responsibility as men, as believers in Christ, as husbands, as fathers. We have the first responsibility to put ourselves under control, regardless of what's going on.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing, wally. I hesitated on sharing this, but I think it's appropriate in this setting. I met yesterday with one of the leaders of our church and we have a large church, 7,000 members and we had a program going on there for men over 700 participants over an 11-week period and he told me a stat that blew my mind regarding this. He said that they did a secret poll of the men. 92% of those men struggle in some regard to pornography. These are people that are at church on a regular basis and they're struggling to that degree. And I just said, hey, we've got to address that and deal with it, because a lot of these marriages are breaking up as a result of that. And the guy that was even telling me about it, he said oh yeah, my wife told me if that became an issue in our marriage, she'd pack her bags and leave.
Speaker 2:If there is any women listening to this podcast hopefully there are, and hopefully you'll get your husband involved, and we would love to have him participating here as well in the Brotherhood but I want to let you know that it's not you the reason for the desire for that. Things you're doing are not doing. Men are innately wired visually. They just are, and so I don't want your self-esteem to be devastated as a result of your husband's desire to look at pornography. There's got to be a way that we can educate women and men to have these honest conversations, to set boundaries, to help work through this. Men don't deserve a pass. I'm not asking for a pass, that's not what I'm saying, but I am saying that there needs to be open dialogue, education, help, accountability, boundaries around this so it doesn't devastate the marriages.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about the young man. I've got two grandsons and they're 15 and 17. They're getting inundated with things on social media, and the access to it now is just your phone. It's just right there and you can go, and it's very easy to access this. And we have people sitting in our church using our Wi-Fi, going to pornography sites during the service, and so it's a real problem and so we have to address it.
Speaker 2:But again, this is one of the things that we wanted to talk about. This is one of the reasons that affairs happen. Right, they're not willing to talk about this. As a family, you don't know where to turn, you don't have accountability in your life, you haven't established boundaries, you don't have people checking on you and it just is so accessible that we just go there as a default when there's unmet needs in our marriage. And so just want you to think about the frustrations, the dissatisfaction. If you don't have a safe place, you're like, hey, there's no way my wife's going to discuss that. You need to get yourself around unbiased, trusted advisors that are private in nature, that you can talk through this, that they can help, direct you and guide you. You're probably not going to fight this alone, so I just want to really encourage you, first of all, to be open and honest in these discussions in your marriage.
Speaker 2:It's a real thing, and so I just want to encourage you today to really really think through that. One other topic I wanted to talk about before we finish up today, and that's the freedom and the lack of accountability. This is what I told in the opening comments about myself, as I didn't have any accountability. I had a little bit of resources, I had some early success financially and I had a sense of freedom with nobody around me, nobody checking on me, nobody asking me the tough questions. So, wally, what's your thoughts around guys today that have too much freedom and they have a lack of accountability?
Speaker 1:You know you say that and I immediately start to think about things like like somebody that's not working and you know at all, and and and they just have all this time they've retired or whatever. And I think back on my life and some of the guys I talk to talk with and it's like that's not, that's not what freedom. That is freedom. But all of us listening today, if you have a business and you have a business checking account or business credit card, you have freedom because your wife probably doesn't see that credit card. You have freedom because your wife probably doesn't see that.
Speaker 1:And you may be a solopreneur running your own books and you may be running things through there that you wouldn't put through your, your personal. Um, that's freedom and you can just take that. You know when you travel, you know where are you going, where are you hanging out, who you who is you know spending time with, why are there? What accountability are you going? Where are you hanging out? Who are you spending time with? Why are there? What accountability do you have? You know, like when, and then the older you get, you find more space for things and naturally you have more time and you know so when you say that I want to think, oh, somebody who's retired or, you know, retired early or whatever.
Speaker 2:Really it's anybody listening that?
Speaker 1:has bandwidth or that has you know, any type of checking account. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. It's just, it's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the thing is is the first 20 years and I keep going back to that for me, because I didn't have anybody I was accountable to, like Robin didn't see anything related to the book, she didn't have any insight to anything that I was doing, from 7.30 in the morning when I left till 6.30 at night when I got home. Like I was the owner, I owned the business. Nobody was gonna challenge me or ask me anything. I would leave in the middle of the day and go do whatever I wanted to do. And I would leave in the middle of the day and go do whatever I wanted to do and I would sit in my office and do whatever I wanted to do. And like nobody was there, I hadn't subjected myself to the scrutiny of anybody. I haven't given anybody permission to ask me the tough questions. And then when I was introduced by David Landreth, he was a pastor of our church where I went to church and he said we need people around us asking us tough questions and I was on his accountability team for seven years and we asked very pointed, direct, specific questions about things and you couldn't wiggle out of it. It was like, you know, you weren't going to sit in there and just all face lie to him. I wouldn't think you would.
Speaker 2:And so today I have Hugh Morris, randy Butler and Chris Freeman, three men that I meet with every Monday morning at 630 and I have for 20 years, that ask me these very direct, pointed questions and they challenge me every single week as I do them. It's like we can't do that to our spouse, we can't talk that way, we can't go there alone, we can't. There's guardrails and a lot of you listening to this are like man, I wouldn't want to live my life that way. Well, let me tell you, with all this freedom and no accountability, we're all just one bad decision away from ruining our entire life, our entire business, our marriage, our relationship with our kids. And, honestly, I want that level of accountability because I know, left to my own decisions, I'm very apt to make a bad one. So, as you think through this today, like am I on the verge of having an accountability? You know it's funny because we modeled our name after Proverbs 27, 17,. As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. And that's what we do in our mastermind, in this brotherhood, every single day, you and I, even personally, we're challenging each other, we're asking each other hard questions. We want each other's marriage to be successful and be the best father that you can be, be the best husband that you can be, and be the most successful and significant entrepreneur, small business owner that you can be, and be the most successful and significant entrepreneur small business owner that you can possibly be. So why would we not want to do these things? To protect ourselves from such devastation as having an affair?
Speaker 2:I remember once a year our pastor would come before us as men at our church there's 3,300 men in our church now Used to, obviously it was smaller, but he would do this one little skit and he would do it every single year with the men. He would gather the men together, he would speak to the men, encourage them and challenge them and he would always bring this large portrait it was like an 18 by 24 portrait of his family and he would show us the family. He'd say just envision yourself coming before these people and he would name his wife, jennifer, and his kids and Rachel and Sam, and he would say just go to them and look at them, look at the picture. He would look at the picture and he would say your dad had an affair. I cheated on your mom, and how do you think that's going to make her feel? What is that going to do to the core strengths and the values of your family, and how's your children going to look at you from now on as a result of that? Just go through that exercise and do that.
Speaker 2:It rips your guts out. It's like, oh my gosh, I would hate that. Well, if you don't have boundaries and you don't have accountability, one day you're going to be sitting before your family and saying I made a huge mistake. And listen, we here in Iron Sharkman's Iron Brotherhood do not want you to go through that. So think through that. Think through some of these things that we've asked you today. Do you have that level excuse me of accountability? Is there an emotional disconnection in your marriage? Do you have this sexual frustration or dissatisfaction? And then, finally, have you given yourself a sense of accountability or is there a lack thereof? So think about these things. As we wrap up today, do an evaluation of your own marriage, where you're at, because we don't want you to have an affair ever. We want you to be all God's that's created you to be, so that you, too, can have a view from the top.
Speaker 1:Hey, thanks again for listening in to this episode and to learn more about getting the support and accountability that you need, go check out isibrotherhoodcom and we will see you next week.