ISI Brotherhood Podcast

144. Investing in Brotherhood: The Power of Male Friendships.

• Aaron Walker • Season 2 • Episode 144

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This week, we’re bringing back a conversation from last year that continues to hit close to home—especially for men who are building, leading, and carrying a lot on their shoulders.

In this episode, we unpack why isolation quietly erodes growth and why meaningful male friendships are not optional if you want to live with integrity, faith, and long-term impact. The discussion goes beyond surface-level connection and into what happens when men surround themselves with trusted, objective voices who are willing to challenge them, encourage them, and call them higher.

We also address a tension many men know all too well: chasing success while unintentionally sidelining the relationships that matter most. Through honest personal stories, we reflect on moments that forced hard perspective shifts—especially the realization that financial wins can never replace missed time with a spouse or children. As one sobering reminder puts it: you can rebuild income, but you don’t get a second shot at being present for your family.

The episode highlights how brotherhood creates momentum in unexpected ways. When relationships are formed without agendas or transactions, doors often open—personally and professionally. Some men enter community looking to grow their business and discover personal transformation. Others come seeking growth and find opportunities they never anticipated.

This conversation invites you to take an honest look at the men you’re doing life with. Who sharpens you? Who celebrates your progress? Who has permission to speak truth when it’s uncomfortable? The strength of those relationships may determine the ceiling of your leadership and the depth of your fulfillment.

If you’re tired of carrying everything alone, this episode is worth another listen—or a first one.

Key Takeaways:

  • You don’t have to carry life on your own
  • Why isolation quietly undermines excellence
  • Creating margin for what truly matters
  • Keeping family relationships at the center
  • Using community as a catalyst for shared growth
  • Building connections that compound over time

Connect:

SPEAKER_00:

Have you ever had trouble connecting with other men? Well, I want to tell you in today's episode, we talk about how the world says that you should go it alone. I don't want you to go alone. I want you to go with other brothers because you can go much further when you go in community rather than in isolation. You know, in this episode, we talk a lot about the value of brotherhood, being in community, being vulnerable, being authentic, and being genuine. I want to encourage you to listen to this episode today because we teach you how to make time for those relationships and then how you can leverage those relationships to be mutually beneficial for you and others. Be sure and tune in. Let's go to it. Well, welcome back to ISI Brotherhood Podcast. And today I'm pretty amped up. This is probably my favorite subject to talk about. And the reason it is, is because the world tells men to go it alone. And I want to be the first to tell you isolation is the enemy to excellence. If you want to go further, man, you've got to go with a community. If you want to go faster, you can go alone. But I promise you, going with a community is far better. You know, real success isn't just about business wins, it's about the men you surround yourself with. And I've had the distinct privilege for years to surrounding myself with trusted advisors, and I can't even begin to tell you the difference it's made in my life. Today we're going to dive deep into why strong male friendships are essential for your character, your faith, and your leadership. And I've got none other than our co-host, Seth Bueckley. Seth? Hey, big.

SPEAKER_01:

How's it going today, bud? You know, it's good. I'm out here in southern Oregon. The the uh sky is gray and the uh water's coming down, but that's nothing, nothing new. I'm super excited to be here with you talking about this topic. Lots, lots to think about when we choose our tribe, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no question about it. I don't want to rub it in, but it's 68 degrees here. Bluebird skies and the birds are singing, the deers are running around. Robin's tulips are coming up, and it's it's pretty, pretty cool here. Not tulips, the buttercups. That's what they are. They're coming up. Nice. They're coming up, man. Good to see you. It's always good to see you. You always make me smile. So I'm glad you're here with us today. What about a brotherhood, man? Iron Sharpens Iron Brotherhood. What impactful story can you tell, just personal experience at how ISI Brotherhood has impacted your life?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I can I can think about um being uh with my ISI guys for the first live event because every every uh twice a year we get together normally with as ISI brothers. And I had a funny experience with um with one of the guys in ISI. We do this little exercise called duct tape, and it you don't use literal duct tape, but you're supposed to keep quiet while other people talk about what they experienced with you. And it was funny, and one of the brothers, he said, Man, you don't seem very happy. And and um, this was a guy who didn't practice faith. And that hit me really hard. And I had to kind of diagnose, I'm like, well, what why is he saying that? And I thought, well, part of it was because I had practiced the art of bringing my problems to my ISI group. And so all they were hearing was a steady dose of crap from me about, you know, like, ah, this is so hard and all that. And frankly, relative to that topic, I wasn't happy. Right. And uh, so in some ways it was like a a uh a feature, an outcome of of the process. But also it just reminded me of like, hey, man, don't let don't don't just focus on the negative things in life because you have a lot to offer that's you know, you should you should be happy. I should be of all the people in the world, I should be the most grateful, right?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I think about brotherhood and what that means to me. The first 20 years of my career, I went it alone. Yeah. Man, I didn't want anybody to know that I didn't know certain things. I didn't want them to know the amount of debt I was in. I didn't want them to know the arguments that Robin and I had. I didn't want them to know that I wasn't a perfect dad. And I bluffed my way through a lot of things, you know, it was the imposture, right? I really was the impostor. And uh I was like, I don't want anybody to know. And when I was invited to be in a mastermind for the first time, I didn't want to go. I told Robin I didn't want to go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

She goes, just go check it out. And I did for three months and didn't say anything. I just sat there and kind of listened until they started really peeling the layers back and they started sharing their challenges and their marriage problems and their lack of cash flow and their debt. And I'm like, God, I found my people. They're as messed up as I am. Yeah. And then I started sharing personally, and it helped me escalate to a level of solving the problems 10x faster. It was like, I don't have to grind through this. Like, I didn't even know that was a thing. They would share something, and I was like, I didn't even know to even think about doing it that way. Or some of the guys were married longer than me, and I'd be having a challenge with Robin and they would say, Why don't you go home and say this to her and maybe ask her this question? And I'm like, that never dawned on me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because some groups have these rules like, don't give each other advice. Right. And other rule, other groups are like, no, that's why I'm here. I want the advice. You know, so so coming up with the norms, right? And it's not necessarily implied that just because you trust, you have a trust relationship with some with some brothers, that they're gonna be in your grill telling you exactly how to behave. Right. And it's also not the opposite of that, which is you're gonna you're gonna share your stuff and they're gonna ask you questions, but they're never gonna say, hey, man, man, what would you do if you were in my shoes? Right. That's frustrating when when you ask a question of somebody, well, what would you do in my shoes? And they ask you a corresponding question. You know, that's no fun. But, you know, as you were you were talking big A, you know, I've come to learn a couple things about relationship that, you know, you just pick up along the road. And one of them is relationships actually get stronger after you endure some conflict. And so I'm not implying you join these groups to get in conflict because, you know, there's not a lot of conflict in these groups. But it was an interesting point that I would have never thought about had somebody not said it. And then I looked back and I thought, man, how many times have you gone sideways with somebody and worked it through? And you actually end up having respect in it in a deep relationship. I can I can give you a dozen of those in my life if I really worked at it. But the other thing about relationships that came from a uh a biblical teacher, actually, he was saying relationships are born out of revelation. Is as you reveal yourself to somebody else, right? Your relationship really is born. And until you reveal yourself, you actually can't have a genuine relationship. And that that really stood out to me. And I I believe that.

SPEAKER_00:

How many men do you think are unwilling to go through any level of conflict to that degree, though? Yeah, I I I don't know that. A lot of people are conflict avoidant. They're like, yeah, my personality doesn't lend itself. Like I like a good tussle, you know? I like to get in there and mix it up.

SPEAKER_01:

I kind of don't, to be honest. I would avoid it. And I I I have been guilty of like having a switch, like, okay, I'm passive, but passive, and now I'm aggressive, you know? Yeah. Um, rather than just being passive, aggressive, like passive and then aggressive. You know, at some point it it boils up. But um, I I don't think we're very practiced, frankly, at working through conflict. You know, we either escalate it, um, you know, or, you know, I had a pastor. In fact, I shared this with the ISI group. I'll I'll share it now. He said, one of the reasons is we're not clear what are the things we should be discussing, what are the things we should be debating, what are the things we should be dividing over, and what are we willing to die for? Right. And so it was kind of this this Wow, those are strong, those are good. Yeah, it's imagine this target. He called it a target of conviction. In the middle is like these very few things that we're willing to die over. And then the next one out is these things we'll actually divide over because we just can't be compatible. But a lot of the things we're just we're just debating, right? And then some of them we're not even debating, we're just discussing. And and it occurred to him, and he taught us like in this culture, we're not very good at that anymore. Like we get it all blurred out and we need a little bit more practice working through that.

SPEAKER_00:

I think one of the things that we've got to do is I think it's important to surround yourself with unbiased, trusted advisors. When you have something to gain or lose as a result of that conflict or that conversation, it's harder to be unbiased. Just naturally. A lot of people say, Well, my business partner is my, you know, accountability partner. They're my mastermind group. And I'm like, ah, and then family members. It's really hard to do that with family members as well, because it's hard to be unbiased. Matter of fact, I recused myself from a decision recently in our business because I couldn't be unbiased in the decision because my daughter uh is involved in the business, and I couldn't get to a place to where I could make a decision, not as her father.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. No, I agree with you. I think, I mean, I do think you can get good advice from people that you're in some sort of relationship with, but it but advice that is free from entanglement is a big deal, right? When the only reason that you're speaking that truth to somebody is it's being spoken in love exclusively for their benefit. Like I gain nothing or lose nothing from this, but it's just for you know, for your benefit.

SPEAKER_00:

There's a real stigma among men about being vulnerable. Let's talk about that just for a second. When when I think of vulnerability, I don't want to be vulnerable in front of the masses. Like I will to a certain level, right? But there are certain things that I'm just not going to go there. But when I have trusted advisors that have earned the respect and the trust for me, I know they have my best interest at heart. I know there's not anything in it for their gain. Uh, they love me unconditionally. They want to walk with me to see me win. They want to celebrate with me when I do win. They want to challenge me when I'm not doing the right thing. They hold me accountable to the things that I say that I want to accomplish. And they do it in a spirit of love, but in a spirit of firmness. I have a much easier time being vulnerable with those people. So would you find it to be the same or is it different for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, I would say generally the same. I mean, it kind of depends on the magnitude of what's being held back, right? There are things, there's varying layers of uh things that you might, you know, reveal. Um, it does feel a bit, uh can feel a bit disempowering, right? Uh vulnerability is a weird word. It's like somebody saying, you know, I'm really about relational intimacy. It makes you want to take about a half step back. You're like, I'm not for sure exactly what's entailed in that, right? What does that mean? Right. Right. And and so uh, you know, again, uh vulnerability being, you know, I'm gonna be transparent. I'm I'm gonna, I'm gonna, and I'm gonna take some input and I'm gonna tell you how I'm really feeling. And and I think the other side of it is, and you've you've mentioned this quite a bit uh in you know past weeks, big A, is you gotta be really careful who you're opening yourself up to.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, you know, biblically, pearls before swines. That's a great concept, right? Yes. Not everybody's at the same maturity level. Um, you know, I remember my dad one time, he said something like, you know, the barber doesn't want to hear about your trip to Costa Rica, you know, he just randomly said that like, not everybody wants to hear you big time in it about how well you're doing or how you because you know, it's just it's not fair. But if you get the right stratum of peers, meaning they're in it at the same level you are, right? And I think that's important. Like there's no billionaires in you know, my ISI group. That doesn't mean that we couldn't talk about stuff, but to be honest, I'm not sure I have a lot of. Yeah, they have different challenges and opportunities and burdens. Um, you know, and so you, you know, you kind of need to pick a stratum of people that are uh, in my view, a few steps behind you, a few steps ahead of you, right? That way you're getting that full perspective.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Some guys that are listening to this today are like, yeah, Seth, big A, this all sounds great, but I just don't have time for relationships like that. It's just something that I'll get to later. And I want to give you some words of wisdom here, if I could, related to that. I think you've got to make time for it because our life is kind of cyclical, right? I mean, it's like a roller coaster. It's up, it's down. And when you need somebody, it's too late to build the relationship.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's a very transactional view of life, in my view. Um it's if I can't see an immediate ROI, therefore I'm not going to justify it. Now, I understand that. I just disagree with it. And I disagree also. You know, I'm a I'm a connector. I I would say if somebody said, What's a superpower? That's probably one of the ones that I have of if I have any, right? Is I'm a connector. Well, one of the reasons I'm a connector is I get my butt on an airplane and I drive and go to the airport and I fly places and I get to know people and then I stay in touch with them, and then I see them again next year, and then next year, and pretty soon we have trust and we do business with it. Yeah. And uh I literally had a friend talk about an industry's largest conference, the industries he's in, say the other day, Well, I calculated the ROI and it just never made sense. And I just was like, I mean, I bump into five people that day that could change the business trajectory. Yes, but not if you're sitting home, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So you know, the old cliche, your net worth is directly proportionate to your network. There's a lot of truth in that. Yeah. Because relationships matter most. They trump most everything. And if you're not spending time developing relationships, friendships, now I'm gonna be honest with you, I probably take it to a whole nother level because I know the value of it. I've got a very extensive contact list because I really care about people genuinely. And the thing that I do oftentimes, just a few little tips for those that are not as well connected relationally. I reach out to people when I don't need anything.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? It's like, hey Seth, how's it going? Just checking on you. How's Helen? How's the kids? You had any ski trips? How's it going? Most of the time, on the heels of that comes a question. Well, while I've got you on the phone, let me ask you a question about, you know, a merger and acquisition. You're like, well, okay, now we're getting to why you called. But if you don't ask that question, you just really call to check, it leaves an endeavor impression on people that like, he really called me to check on me. He cared about me. So something forges there. Another thing I do a lot is just send videos to people. Hey, Seth, had you on my mind today? Just a little short 30-second video. Hope you're doing well. Hope business is well. If you need me for anything, give me a shout. Just a short little video, text message. I'll text, I don't know how many guys a day, just checking on you, just thinking about you. And then I don't do it for this reason, but then when you do need something, it's much easier to get them to comply.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Um, you know, John Maxwell has a great quote, which is, you know, you need to be bigger on the inside than you are on the outside. Right. And I actually see a real parallel to this building of relationships versus trying to build a platform. Okay. And I've been very guilty.

SPEAKER_00:

Platform will come if the relationships do.

SPEAKER_01:

I've been very guilty of this. Spend time and energy and emotion on platform, platform, reach, reach, you know, and yeah, I could peel it all the way back and saying, you know, you're chasing fame or notoriety, or uh one of the great old um theologians called it uh called it chasing honor, or, you know, is like you just wanting to be recognized and ignoring the people that are right here with you every day. Like that's the practical level. And when people who say, oh, I don't have time, it's like, no, actually, what you're doing is you're saying your platform and the thing that you think you're going to build that's big and massive is more important than the people that are that are here, right? That are maybe you know building relationships. So it's not, you know, not a perfect science, but I do think part of it is we just minimize the value of relationships because we'd rather chase big things that reward us with money and power and fame. And I think the Lord comes from time to time just to remind us you need these relationships. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I want to talk about some key relationships that I think we um that we do wrong oftentimes. And that's the people that we're the closest to. Let's just talk about our wives for a second. And I know I got really caught up in my career. I reference a lot the first 20 years of my career. I did it wrong. I did it right financially, but I did it wrong relationally because there was relationship capital that I spent as a result of the successful business. And I came home one day to Robin, and Robin's been my biggest advocate, a huge supporter. And I walked in the door one day, kissed her like I always do, and she looked at me, the kids weren't there, and she said, We need to have a talk. And I was like, uh oh. This is not good. Anytime Robin says that, I'm like, uh-oh. We sat on the couch and she started out thanking me for all the things that I'd provided. Thank you for our beautiful home. We had a second home at that time in the mountains. Thank you for my car. Thank you for my ability to stay at home. And I thought, this is gonna be bad. This is fixing to be bad. When Robin starts out like this, it's not gonna end well. So we get to the punchline, and I'm like, okay, I'm ready. Like Muhammad Ali is fixing to hit me. She said, But I feel like a single mom. And man, it cut to the core. And she said, I'd rather have less and you be present when you're home than to have all these tangible material possessions and feel like a single mom.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And it ripped my heart out. And I said, Robin, I've got to do better. And so she's worked with me and helped me and helped build guardrails because I love to work. And I know, Seth, you love to work. But listen, if we're doing that at the expense of our kids, your little boy comes up to you and wants to pitch baseball, and you're like, I got to send another email. I've got to do this other thing. And he goes outside, they're gonna find other relationships. And one day you're gonna come home with a pocket full of money to a house full of strangers.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I don't want that to happen to any of our audience.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well said. I can think about times being on conference calls, and my dad would drop into my office and I'd be like, I'm on a call. Now, of course, he would never schedule anything, so it's part of his fault, but but I had to finish the call and I'd end up kind of waving him off and he'd leave. And now I find myself that my son's working, trying to get an edge in, you know, with him, or you know, uh, we're in edge wise into his world, and he's a little too busy for me. And I'm like, I'm like, all right, did I create this? You know, did I model this? You know, moments of truth, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, here's the thing is I tell people today, you can always make more money. Yeah. But you get one chance with your wife and your kids. You don't get a do over. This is not a trial run. Like, this is it right now. You're building the legacy that they're going to remove. Remember. And you want to develop that relationship, even if it comes at the expense of not scaling your business as fast or whatever the case may be related to that. Now, I'm not saying there's not seasons in our life that we have to work a little bit more, but be really, really mindful and make time for those relationships. Well, the other thing that we need to talk about is leveraging community for growth. So leverage is a very powerful tool, right? And I tell a lot of guys that get into ISI and they never call anybody else. They never reach out to the other groups. Right. And I'm like, do you realize when you're in a community like we've got, and there's been hundreds and hundreds of guys go through here, because you're an ISI brother, you get to leverage those relationships. And you've called me and said, Hey, Big A, do you know X or do you know this guy? Yeah, let me let me connect you. And I've done the same with you. It's like we run in different spheres, but we all know people that can be beneficial to one another. So give me an example of a time where you've leveraged uh these relationships for the betterment. I mean, it's a mutually beneficial happening for both persons, not just a one-sided.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. But yeah, well, let me just start with saying, you know, I view life in general like it like it's a scavenger hunt, right? We all have gifts, but we don't have all the gifts. Right. And I think as we get a little older, we start to say, um, all right, now I'm clear on my gifts. I I'm also really clear on my gaps and my deficiencies. Right. And so what's cool about a group, and it's the same thing that's cool about a company, once you start to add some people, is you realize, you know, you you you uh you play to each other's strengths and you cover each other's weaknesses, right? But a healthy team has all the different parts and all the gifts. So you don't have any glaring gaps, right? And so I kind of uh view uh ISI, you know, brotherhood as a place where you've got all these gifted people, right? And when I need to know something uh on that topic or in that domain, um, you know, I can I can tap them. It's it's been said that if I tell you something about myself, you're gonna discount it a little bit because I'm, you know, it's self-promotion. And if I hire somebody to tell you something about me, you're gonna discount it a little as well. But if you accidentally hear something about me, you're gonna likely believe it. Yeah. And so what happens in these groups, in my mind, in my experience, I should say, is you get a lot of accidental learning because somebody's talking about their business system and you're like, I would have never approached it that way. Or somebody's talking about a relational challenge that they're navigating through. You're like, that's cool. I wouldn't have thought about that. And so this accidental communication learning that happens as you're you're interacting, you know, has has been huge.

SPEAKER_00:

So you know, I think about all the interactions and the people, how how deep the wisdom and the knowledge is in different areas of different men's lives. And the people that come in oftentimes wanting business end up growing personally rather than professionally. And the opposite proves to be true. People that come in need relational help, they make connections and they form a partnership and they grow a business or they buy a piece of property together. Uh, there's there's a guy in ISI that five years ago I didn't know. And I'm a large investor in his company now, and I didn't know him five years ago because I built a relationship. I took the time to get to know him, and today I invest in his business. And that's leveraging that relationship in a positive way. He needed the resources and I wanted the investment. Yeah. There's two other guys recently bought a commercial piece of property together that the guy that was supplying the resources funded the guy that needed it, and uh, they've got just a marriage made in heaven as a result of it. And it just happens across the board, but it it's leverage in a good way, not in a useful way. It's sure.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you still have to have your eyes wide open, and you know, business business needs uh everything needs to be done with due diligence. I can think about one, uh Derek Champagne is a great uh uh partner in in ISI Brotherhood, and and I'm actually in his uh group. And he introduced me to a gentleman, I can name names, uh, his name's Scott Manthorn. And Scott is a is a very interesting dude. Uh, he's like a professional connector networker guy. And I'm on the phone, I'm listening to this guy, and and I'm like, you get paid to do that? What? Who, what? You know, and it was just like this most interesting thing. And so I took a little bet on Scott and engaged him to do some work for us. And he was trying to network here, network here, network there. And I went down to Costa Rica with him one time and he introduced me to some people, and we had a nice dinner. He picked up the tab. I'm like, okay, you know, we'll see. And again, I had no direct line of sight to real revenue. This is the equivalent of taking a flyer. But it's somebody Derek knew, somebody that I got to know through referral. Well, you know, six months later, I get a call from the leading developer in Costa Rica who Scott had introduced me to. He said, Hey, I met a guy today that I think you should get to know. He's in the telecom space. I talked to this young leader, and I ended up uh putting together a loan to fund and finance his business. He launched the first satellite provider to the rural districts in Costa Rica. And now we've put reliable satellite communication over 1,200 schools throughout the country, have had presidential accolades and you know, all of those kind of things. And I'm a business partner with him. And just this morning, we were pitching providing fiber optic networks to this big development in town in the back of my in Costa Rica, and in the back of my mind, we're gonna do that through this telcom. You know, and so there's an example, because I like to connect, right? Is I can see how those dots connected, right? Was it a straight line? No, it never is, right? But it starts with putting yourself in the room with the right people, following up on referrals, taking those phone calls when somebody says, and you do this really well, big A, hey, you two ought to get to know each other and bye, and you just back out of the conversation, right? Those are important things.

SPEAKER_00:

Here's the thing that we don't need to miss. The reason that you took the flyer is because your trust in Derek Champagne, not in the guy you met with. That's true. And if you hadn't have spent eight years nurturing that relationship, never in a million years would you have taken that flyer and gone to Costa Rica with a guy that you didn't have any confidence in whatsoever because you didn't know him. But you borrowed the relationship from Derek because he had the confidence in the guy. And that's what we try to tell people all the time. You've got to get outside of yourself, get out of isolation, start networking, building rapport, building relationships with other people, because that could turn into a very, very profitable investment for you, as well as building a great relationship, which he is going to connect you with more people. Relationships are key. It's the reason that relationships are our number one core value in everything that we do, whether you're selling a widget or you're providing a service, the relationships matter most. Brotherhood is so important in everything that we do. These relationships, I'm telling you, pay dividends at the highest level. When you start thinking about building a life of meaning, your friendships, uh, they're vastly important in everything that you do. So having that value of brotherhood, making time for the relationships, don't forget that. You don't have time not to do it. Not that you don't have time to do it. I want to implore today or encourage today that you really invest in these relationships. And then you'll do what we just said last. You can leverage that relationship for community, uh, for your betterment, for their betterment. It's mutually beneficial. It's helpful, and it's just not something that we should do without. Thank you for being with us today, Seth. I really enjoyed our time. Next time, remember you can go to isibrotherhood.com and learn more about the ISI Brotherhood community.